nerves in protection - Page 2

GARD, the dog was restrained. The agitator was put to the ground and the fight was essentially over, the dog won. He was restrained.  

Ive seen other mature DDR & working lines look miserable their 1st time on a sleeve or threat but progress nicely in the course of a day even. This video  (both) shows a naturally defensive dog doing a nice job.  He is workable and Im sure a very good perimeter guard like most of them are.  No one knows the age of the dog,  etc and yet comments like they can run over such a dog. Have at it. Get your clatter stick, suit up a hidden sleeve and go for it. Talk is cheap.

Darwinism is a bitch & these dogs are left in the fields to guard.  Wolves,  DOgs, Leopards or Bandits.  Those that live, breed. Downside is their  hair, size, & lack of prey for sport, in capturing running suspects etc. 

But you will not find a better perimeter Guard.   It would be a liability to own one, imo.

Jeff

I have owned one and I have seen around twenty others first hand. 

First, you can't loop a whole breed into one video of an immature dog.  I can stick hundreds of videos of German shepherds hiding behind their owners, running off the field, or in avoidance.  Hell, we can bring back the BSP video of the dog that wouldn't engage. 

Secondly, you state that the dog is clearly ready to run.  Please break that down for us novices.  Explain this in detail for me.  I have a hard time seeing that this dog is getting run.  I see an immature dog.  I could put almost any GSD or mal in a situation that they would run at some point in their early stages of life.

"Handler move out of the way"?  

Jeff... the dog put the handler on his ass, lest he get bitten in the neck.

The dog was restrained by a lead. The fight was over. Nothing nervy about the dog, nothing bluff or high pitch in his bark as the brain dead Sueincc commented.  

This was a real dog and the agitator is very lucky, his footing & mistake couldve cost him dearly.

Stop your huffing & puffing.. I never said the dogs are suitable for walking down the street, they might be good for walking in the mountains with wolves & mountain lions to ward off though.

I wish I knew how to transfer video.  I have a couple of nice VHS tapes of Caucasian Ovcharkas.  This is not a sport dog.  I don't even know if you would want it for a PP dog.  I never did any bitework with mine and I never would with one of these.  There is a place for them and on the sport field is not one of them.

Love to see it Don, not sure I can help you with it.    Perhaps you can load/save video to your hard drive and from there onto youtube or anther service??

But I like watching other dogs work,  & appreciate your honesty.

I found this website with a few pics... Standard says up to 198#.   Thats a big dog.   

http://www.rassokhin.com/personal/Dogs/index.html

Im only 230 & could  bench press 405lbs  on a real good day, but unlike Jeff, I dont think I could lift or throw one of these dogs.

Jeff.. I smell boviating & BS.

Im not much of a dead lifter, I could Clean 275 in college, when I played Fullback.  But I could not then nor now, essentially do an upright row or front raise with 175# of dog with 1 arm, nor could you.  Worlds Strongest man? perhaps.  

I dont do DLs  heavy. Im too old at 39 & train MMA.   Its too much on the body but they are a great.

I never, ever indicated these dogs as proper PP dogs. They arent.  Nor did Don. They are Beasts, they are huge and they are for real, many of them.  Perimeter guard, yes the finest.  They do & will react to a threat.  But I dont think theyd be effective in running & engaging a threat, though there is another vid of one doing work on a property on a perp in training.

A guy takes out a 45,  and Any dog is dead!  Unless the Cop cant shoot or is blind.  You made a statement in another post about Not being suitable as a PP dog for walking down a street.   Agreed in large part.  I wouldnt want a 180# dog to walk down a street.   A CCW & a trained Pit, Mal, GSD, Rott, or RS is the ticket.

And Gustav never said the dog was the ultimate PP dog. I did make reference to the dog being good candidate for military sentry and perimeter dog.....I still stand by that because I have worked with such dogs in training so i don't need somebody to explain to me what it takes or doesn't take. I also said that the dog was serious and would not run away from that perimeter because somebody brings some stones in a bottle or clatterstick....I still stand by that! Lastly, I find it amusing that people on the forum that have never worked the breed are more knowledgable about the nerves of these dogs than Don who has owned one and been around over twenty in his travels. I respect everybodies opinion, but i will go with first hand from a proven dog person(DON) than I will the expert opinion of people that don't intimately know the characteristics of the breed. Anyway, nobody is going to change their opinion on this board about this subject , so everybody is right if it makes you feel better.

Thanks animules,
How did I miss what every one seemed to get??
Watched the videos. Seems like we have lots of apples and oranges going on here. One thing that I noticed between the two dogs is that the handler of dog # 1 did not know what he was doing. That is exactly why I always cabled a dog as in the case of dog # 2. Unless the handler knows what he is doing there is too much at stake to trust him.  The handler IMO left the door open for the dog #1 to release and go for a " cheap shot" as we used to call it. Now by cheap shot I do not mean this is bad, just depends on what you are training for. For police work, NO,  for a dog that is to defend his property such as a weapons compound, YES.
First dog was hesitant and APPEARS to be lacking confidence and his first bite further points in this direction. Again though, what is the dog being trained to do. If you look at old school guard dog training the dog was not to commit to the bite until the bad guy was within the property. This illiminates the possibility of the dog being injured while the bad guy is in a safe zone. If he goes up to the bad guy too quick, and the bad guy is in a safe place ( on the other side of a wire fence ) then he enteres the bad guys domain. This dog looked better as he got going and I don't know what the objectives were for sure or for how long he had been working.  The agitator getting bit though was because the handlers angle gave the dog the opportunity to release and close the gap and take a real shot, which for sure is what they would want for hurting someone and no rules in play.
Second dog looked better and IMO this dog was properly cabled to allow the agitator to judge his distance to the inch. Any one that has done this type of agitation knows that if you are dealing with a Rott or strong gsd etc. getting as close as you can is important.  I have been bitten many times pushing it. This is apart of the territory. But I refuse to get bit because the handler had his head up his rear.
The second dog however did not last, and needed to be brought back into the fight by the agitator as he turned around showing no interrest.  Sometimes this is because of age, too young or a drive etc.  I think one would have to be there to really be able to see it all up close.  Too hard to watch a video and say for sure when we don't have the whole picture.
I have the utmost respect for those on here that have offered different opinions on these dogs but at this point I would say that I would take these dogs if I could and see what they will do under some stress. My guess is that they would perform better then they looked.