A historical question re Jello von der Wienerau - Page 2

What I saw in Jello was borderline strength in the work and miserable foundation training. He was a very good example of what happens when we RUSH a young dog, then sell him abroad to owners who show him before they have had time to bond with him. Vrey von Dan Alhedy's Hoeve was another dog who suffered from that unhappy situation, never showing to his capability and quality once sold to the US.

Happily, Jello produced temperament and working abilty up to his pedigree. I saw abeautiful male from him out of an Ulk Arlett daughter (Kromerhaus dog) who worked as well as most working line dogs. Unfortunately, his hips were not very good so to the best of my knowledge he was not bred. Lars was fine in the work.

SS

Ziegan -  Great post.  I agree wholeheartedly re the need for  a plan and looking forward and will go a step further and say you should be looking 3 or 4 generations down the line.  I see the same thing whether it be German hi-line dogs, working dogs or American show dogs the philosophy that we "must" breed to the winner ( VA, BSP, select) of the moment w/ no thought of - is that appropriate for my bitch, will it develop what I want in my line, what is it doing to the gene pool ( restricting the "hell" out of it in most cases) etc etc.

I saw a post here awhile back wh/ I did not respond to that was a discussion about only breeding to young dogs because by 3 or 4 they were already passe and the next generation of winners was already taking the spotlight. I just thought to myself - what fools. Now for me personally, I love old dogs. Get to see who and what they are, what they and their lines produce and if they are still breeding at 9,10, 11, and 12 you know you got a good chance at some decent longevity in the line.

Two old sayings you may of heard but if not I think you will appreciate. The first is about repeat litters ( The R litter Osnabrücker Land   was another example of never acheiving the same quality in repeat litters but that had the additional drama of the second sire in the first litter). Any way with a great litter the question is always did you get the best of the best or the worst of the worst? So if it''s the worst and it's this great think what we could get if it was the best. Thus people repeat and repeat and repeat looking for the magic wand. Usually none of the repeats meet the quality of the originals. I can see the impusle to try a repeat once if it was a particularly good click but  for me with a bitch you have limited opportunities to explore her reproductive capabilities and I'd rather try something different and see how it changes the picture - but that's just me.

The other quote is this ( and I hope I'm getting it right).  If the worst puppy of your last litter is no better than the worst puppy of your first litter then you have made no real progress. The idea being we tend to focus on the stars ( who often are sports and do not reproduce well) instead of the overall quality that we produce and we HAVE to have long term goals for where we heading. The old saw if you can't see where you are going you can't get there.

Glad to know there are a few other old crazies who share my views. :}}

old saying bet/worst  and rebreedings