The Clash: BSZ versus BSP - Page 2

There is nothing distorted about my facts. As you well know, my data are based upon basic SV-material only. And I am certainly not discrediting the breed. I am solely accusing the management, the judges and commercial breeders of their ignorance, incompetence and greed (for which Max von Stephanitz has warned all the time).

If something bothers me, than it must be the blindness of fanatic people (so-called GSD fanciers), making each other believe everything is just fine! "Your dog has Canine Hip Dysplasia? So what? That is nothing to worry about! Get out a here!!" 

You're ruining MY breed, and I won't let it happen. If not too many people react on the study in "the open", then only because they are in the middle of it, and must sadly enough fear represailles. I am overwhelmed by incoming mail telling me it was high time somebody spoke up.

I AM ruining YOUR breed? Jantie, please go away and find another breed to play with! I am glad that you are overwhelmed with incoming mail of people who apparantly won't speak out in public.

Go and fix the "broken blinker" on your car! You know what I am talking about!

Chris

Don't start to be childish Chris, you're perfectly capable of keeping this on a friendly level.

Some people might refer to Canine Hip Dysplasia as being something like "a broken blinker" on a car (nothing serious), it will not surprise anyone it comes from a website where GSD fanciers tap each other on the shoulder, for a job welldone.

Let me invite you to a website (you read German) where people are allowed to speak their minds, without being ignored or insulted. THEY ARE the real GSD fans that care for the breed and its health:

http://www.schaeferhund-forum.de/thread.php?threadid=4809

Forgive me for blushing when reading the compliments. I won't even start to copy and translate the interesting remarks, will stay modest.

You seem to forget, that the movement around Eugen Ecker , Ursula Zabel and Dr. Helmut Raiser puts the finger in the same wounds. You want them to go away too, don't you? Are you aware of the consequences of this attitude?

Sorry for being childish, Jantie.

Yep, I do read German (it is afterall my mother language) and I have been a member of Paul's forum for quite a while now. However, I do not visit often and therefore, I did not even realize that you posted there as well. Which compliments were you talking about? Yes, a couple of people congratulated you, but they were not aware of your ongoing feuds with just about everybody. They too will tire of it, believe me. Your problem is lack of credibility! You have been trying to tell us for months now about how bad CHD is in our breed. You always receive the same answer that yes, while there are cases, it is not as bad as you try to make it out. You have owned a dog with severe CHD and you killed him, which you did not have to. I do not want to get into that anymore, it would not serve your purpose either, unless you wish to discuss this all over again. You also lost your court case. So, I guess in your eyes, the German legal system is just as corrupt as the SV, so there is no more to say about that. You have never bred GSDs, nor trained and titled them. So, unless you walk a mile into the shoes of the so-called "commercial breeders" or other sport people, no one who matters will take you serious.

As to the other named people,  it does not matter if I want them gone or not, they are gone, remember? They were expelled by the SV. They are in the process of founding their own organization, the SV-2000. For your convenience, I have provided the link to their website where you can register as well: www.zuechtergemeinschaft.de/

Sorry for being so direct, Jantie! You called me out, I did not want to be involved in a new series. So, please leave me out of it from now on. Thanks!

Chris

Trying to chicken out, are you? Feels like you are punching somebody in the face, and then runaway quickly.

Of course, you're misrepresenting everything. I DID NOT LOOSE the courtcase. If German IS your mothertongue, you will need to read the articles in the WUFF-magazine again. My lawyer made a mistake, filing the appeal at the wrong court, which cancelled the whole thing. Shit happens! You know very well, I just migt have wan the case in appeal. THEN you would have had a problem. And rest assured, others are filing cases, eventually one will come through. It's just a matter of time.

From where you sit overthere, it must have been hard to experience or judge the pain my dog had (nobody ever came over here to meet my dog, some silly backyardfemales at the other side of the globe thought they had seen him in their dreams). Now you might be one of the people that put GSDs in wheelchairs, use them as guineapigs. We are not that kind. If we can't secure a healthy and fine dogs life, which he deserves, we put an end to pain.

We stick with von Stephanitz, ruling out bad dogs from breeding, which obviously YOU are not doing. "Mama/Papa ok, go ahead BREED!" - you"ll always find laymen that buy the bad pups. "What a nice female, would love to see her pups!"  Now THAT is cruel.

Always minimizing the magnitude of CHD now are you?: "yes, while there are cases, it is not as bad as you try to make it out"

THERE ARE CASES? You obviously don't have many contacts with Vets. They are the ones treating them, but if you're a breeder, you know darn well how to get rid of the lot. ALL people reacting on the boards have had experiences with CHD. Many people had 3 or 4 dogs with CHD before having one without. 

You should also know, that "commercial breeding" is prohibited by the statutes and articles of the SV?! So watch out what you're saying about this issue. Quote: "no one who matters will take you serious". I think wise people by now DO take me serious. It's the ignorant ones I worry about.

"...expelled by the SV"? Now are you sure we have seen the end of that?

I will leave you out if you wish. Go on ruining the GSD (whilst tapping each other on the shoulder). Very soon you will have a "ragdog". And it won't matter if he needs hipreplacements or wheelchairs. He will be laying on the couch anyway.

(Look for ragdoll in Google).

Bye!

Let me add one remark from the other board:

"Fanatiker hassen sachliche Informationen. Branko hat aber nur mit sachlichen,
nachprüfbaren Fakten hier argumentiert. Wenn seine Argumente nicht stimmen,
werden wir es erfahren. Denn die "Geschäftsleute in Sachen Hunde" werden bei
unrichtigen Angaben mit Sicherheit Einspruch erheben. Nachprüfbare Argumen-
te so ohne Prüfung zurückzuweisen, finde ich Branko gegenüber nicht nur unfair,
sondern sogar dumm."

Fanatics hate factually correct information. Branko = Jantie has made his argument here solely with unbiassed, verifiable facts. When his arguments are not correct, we will be told. While the "businessmen in dogaffairs" will surely enter a protest when facts are not correct. Rejecting verifiable arguments is not only unfair towards Branko = Jantie, but also stupid.  

Jantie, I never run away. I am just tired of your distorted statistics and prefer not to get into it. So, let us stick to other matters, ok? And don't you dare to accuse me of breeding unhealthy dogs. Every one of my litters was done under SV regulations (Kör- und Leistungszucht). Yes, a couple of my dogs had unforeseeable health problems like allergies etc.. Yes, I had a dog which I bought from a big kennel in Germany who had severe CHD and yes, I had to put her to sleep (she also developed canine leukemia), but I never went after her breeder. I see no purpose in that. Personally, I replaced a couple of my puppies because of CHD, but it were not many. Maybe, I just got lucky, but you make it sound like this is a problem out of control.  And I tell you again, unless you own and breed for a while, you do not have the right to accuse us small breeders of ruining our breed. Or wait, did you just mean me by that? Yes, I said that no one who matters takes you serious. With that, I meant the SV - regional directors, breed wardens, judges, etc. I see that you spamed them again with email. Did any of them care to answer?

You said that you did not loose your court case? That is new to me. Helmut (Reivision) specifically reminded you that you were not to name Indiana's breeder's name again, as per verdict. Would you care to publish the court's conclusion here? So maybe, I should rephrase and say that you lost the first round and were denied the next one because your legal representation did a lousy job and failed to appeal in due time? Do I have it correct now? If not, please let me know, so I never confuse it again. I am willing to learn. As to you winning the appeal if you could have gone on: I seriously doubt that. Looking at German consumer protection law, you could have never proved neglegence on the breeder's side. All his breeding stock were certified hip dysplasia free. Out of curiosity: who else is suing who? Or is that privileged information? If it is, you are another one of these people who throw out vague bits and pieces and when called out, nothing ever comes from it. I have read your WUFF articles. You should also mention that the consensus on the German boards for that magazine is that of a tabloid.

You are a very driven person, but not because you are unbiased. Paul's comment which you quoted is not correct (BTW, does Paul know that you copied and pasted here from his board?). Regular PDB users know you and the story of poor Indiana, the dog you denied a life and decided to kill. Yes, you killed him and told us how you pushed that plunger in at your vet's office. You then proceeded to have this dog cut up and displayed autopsy photos of it for everybody to see. At the same time you wrote this teary wonderful eulogy about him. Right before you decided to end his life, you refused to take offers from Blitzen and Felsenhof (both are regulars on this board and are the ones you called silly backyardfemales in your previous post) to have this dog come to the U.S. on their expense and get his hip replacement done (it was unilateral). When I mentioned that on the German forum dsh-biz.de, you ridiculed these good intentions and accused the before mentioned of ill intentions and wanting to experiment with your sick dog. You even alleged that they might use him for breeding. This is just a short summary to your person for the benefit of newbies here. I feel that they should be informed. Otherwise, they get scared when they read all your dire predictions.

You have published the same thread on a few boards. Not many have bothered on the working board, nobody at dsh-biz. That leaves Paul's board. Good that you have a handful of listeners there. If you need a couple more addresses of German forums, please let me know. You could try your luck there. And one other thing Paul is not correct in: You are a fanatic!

Chris

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/picturegallery/2642.html

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/user_comments/397610.html

Hi Chris! This is in a rush. You should refrain from constantly misrepresenting this story. With a blindfold on your head, you have tried to put a jigsaw puzzle together. When taking off the blindfold, you will see that quite some bits and pieces are placed upside down, facedown on the table amongst the others. Using half of MY information, the other half taken from several discussion boards, together with information from Helmut for instance, who has been banned from boards btw because of his bad attitude and his backstabbing procedures, threatening people in personal messages. I have invited him to visit me to hear the entire story firsthand, he has turned the offer down. Instead he has put a twisted story on the net, full of lies, succeeded at the same time to have his advertisements on the breeders site. Now I know that people living off the GSD won’t be eager to listen to my stuff, but there is no need to lie. There are enough people around that have suffered from CHD together with their dogs and who can relate very well to our story. Summary: you’ve written YOUR fan fiction of the story and now want to tell the author he doesn’t know what he is talking about. You can tell, from way over there, if MY dog hurts, and when, if a hip replacement was the best thing for him, the vets around us obviously have no clue, as we must all be retarded, the WUFF-magazine is a tabloid etc., and the GSD is healthy as ever, Canine Hip Dysplasia only exists in our dreams… Yeaaah right!!

For your convenience (and to save me some time, only repeating ad absurdum to your allegations), there are some comments on my site from different readers. You can take a look there if you please/and if you have a lot of time.

http://jantie.demeyere.googlepages.com/Randomcomments.doc

I have answered several questions there too, some excerpts come from boards where people (obviously breeders that imagined I was talking to them) severely attacked me. Now that might shed a light on the dark areas you have not encountered yet, on some of the things you are misrepresenting, or on questions that have been answered already. Such as your remarks about the autopsy. Now you might have a problem with Medical Imaging, I don’t. But then Vesalius was from Belgium, we are familiar with science, it doesn’t frighten us looking inside a body if it helps us researching medical problems. I didn’t do it myself btw, professors did at a great clinic, the pictures are being used in medical studies….

Should anything remain unclear to you, after lecture of the comments, please feel free to write me. Godspeed!