Top German showline dogs in US and Can - any males of medium size? - Page 2

The judges need to learn how to use measure the dog, they use a rubber ruler for some of their friends.

In the same show/same class there are dogs that he refers to as medium size .....

I could be mistaken but I thought the topic was trying to find medium size dogs.  If we were looking for large (within the standard and V rated at a Sieger Show in America this year)  I would mentioned my own male.  Because the topic was MEDIUM .... I chose not to.

To me, "medium" is ~63-64 cm. Since 65 cm is the upper limit of the standard, by definition, a 65 cm dog is "large".

67 cm is definitely "oversized".

Big is frequently used to describe the general impression rather than the exact wither height. Teejay is over medium size (64-64.5cm). He is strong and substantial, but NOT on the upper size limit. You may note the large numbers of males listed at 65 cm. This is because in addition to those that truly ARE 65cm they are listing those that are closer to 66 or 67. Below 65 the recorded measurements seem to be far more accurate as there is little incentive to cheat. Jonah

This was last year's critiques in Germany.  In the same class he recognized the medium sized dogs, over medium size, BIG etc.  V-16 was "correct size - medium strong".

So if we are searching for medium size I would assume we are searching for smaller than BIG?

PS  Thanks Louise - what would you think he is refering to as BIG (vs large)?

Maybe we should all wait till this years NASS......I'm sure the judges will be placing the "stick" to the classes.

Normal big is 65cm...trully 65cm.   Lower than that is considered medium size and over medium size.

I saw Teejay in person and he is not a very large dog.....he is in my opinion a normal sized dog.  I cannot attest to anything else in regards to temperment or producing capabilities....because I have not honestly seen his working ability or progeny.

Has anyone seen Karat's Ulko in person??......maybe he would be another dog to consider, as long as he is of normal size.??

I have seen a few "progeny" from him and they seemed to be VP.

PS  Thanks Louise - what would you think he is refering to as BIG (vs large)?

Sorry--don't understand your question. What is the difference between "big" and "large".

A tall dog with round (also known as "spongy") rather than oval bone appears overly-done and clunky (perhaps a bit coarse)--lacking in athleticism and endurance. Oval bone has greater structural integrity and density than round bone.

Another example would be a hand-built ceramic pot of an eliptical shape which would be much more likely to survive a kiln firing than a round pot because the former has greater structural integrity.

amir is 100% correct, by TODAYS standard a dog that is truely 64-65cm would be condidered medium to upper medium size. Teejay is a 67-68 cm dog as are MOST of the dogs critiqued as big or large. Another problem is that these dogs have already been rewarded in spite of being over sized. This is why the crack down on size and rightly so. The problem is that these dogs that have been placed high in the past must not be considered for high placement in the future. There must be a point where the slate is wiped clean and dogs are listed according to their true size. Naturally this does not sit well with the owners of these dogs after all they have a lot of time and money invested in these dogs and they have been told already that the dog conforms to the standard so it's very easy to see why they would be upset if told that now their dog is oversized. The SV has instructed their judges to measure correctly and not to put up over sized dogs, they have also told them to talk privately with the owners of some of these formerly highly placed over sized dogs and explain to them that in the future it would be wise to leave the dog home or risk being placed at the end of the pack. It is not a problem that will be solved over night and it must be handled with a bit of tact and diplomacy to phase out the old and phase in the new. Once the TOP breeders see that they can not place well with an oversized dog they will police themselves with their choice of future studs and broods, after all it's all about winning.

This is very interesting.  I am chuckling that Teejay, for example,  has been cited at a few different heights.  He is an American dog...shouldn't we know his real height??

There are a number of bitches out there (um, ok, aren't MOST of them?) that are bumping up or over the height std and one would think they would be looking for "medium" or "medium large" males to mate with.  Hence wouldn't the popularity of those smaller males rise???

A large male would typically throw off large pups right?  If coupled with a large female?