i'm bout to beat me a dog!!! - Page 2

Not all breeders ask for the return of the dog to pay out on the guarantee.  Some breeders (me for one) consider that emotional blackmail.  In that case, since you can keep the dog if it does have bad hips-- would you have considered the rough housing as a source of the HD?  Or would you have considered it genetic and demanded your refund?  I think that is what Melanie and DKiah were getting at. A lot of people think their pups should not play or rough house too much, some breeders have limitations on physical activities in their guarantees, and if they know you have not honored their requirements, they won't give you a refund if the dog ends up having HD.

I have considered putting some limitations in my contracts concerning jogging distance and age of puppy.  I'm not sure rough housing would cause a problem if it is limited in duration, and I am also not sure it would NOT cause problems.  There has not been enough serious study on HD as far as I am concerned.

Veronica

iluvmyGSD,  Personally I would not spend time trying to explain what he has done wrong,  I would just simply when he gets hyper,  Put him outside, and let him run it off,  Now this does not mean you can't go out with him, ALONE don't let the RT out if you want to take a ball a tug rope,  throw it around chase him as he proudly prances around with it,  This is PLAY time.  Not time to work,  No Aus commands,  or Out commands just PLAY, and pretty much anything goes and that includes the game of "keep away"...     As far as the two of them playing this is normal DOG behavior, and should NOT in my opinion be completely discouraged....  He should have his play time with her too,  But not exclusive to play time with the other dog,  he needs playtime with you too.  Hope that makes sense.

As for the older RT,  well again NORMAL behavior,  however you will need to keep an eye on your young guy as he "comes into himself" he may try to assert his dominance,  however I have seen dogs that NEVER do.   But I would NOT seperate but rather observe closely and NEVER leave them alone together,  You simply don't know when/if your boy will come into himself and decide to make that challenge for dominanace.

Now the garbage thing,  that's a quick No, Fooey, Aus, Out,  whatever you use,  and then leave it be....  Don't go on and on about it,  simply make your point, and make it clear,  and then move on to something else,  often I will provide them with a chewey of some kind,  after giving them the NO about the garbage or ( ggggrrrrr  CAT LITTER BOX )     once they leave it and come back in to settle in I will have a chewey ready to give to them,  1. it takes they're mind off of they're previous activity,   and 2.  rewards them for being calm and lying on the floor in the living area or wherever.

Hope this helps...  and again,  these are just my suggestions,  I am by FAR no expert, and still learning myself.  I think we are all learning every day we spend with these dogs...  They teach us something new.   LOL

AKveronica---i don't know enough to know what causes HD (my understanding no one knows what causes it) but my first thought in my situation,would be rough housing, not genetic.....thats why im so worried about chillin him out some, with my (little) understanding of his pedigree i see no prob with hips,   also, i have not kind of contract with this dog, i was made no promises--he was givin to my kids as a gift, for a pet...so i would never fault the breeder....melanie made it sound like i would, she could have simply asked like you did : )

ECHO- Thanks , yes does help lots, some things you said i already do, just wondering if i was doing it right...like using a toy to destract him, when he picks up our shoes or something like that, i tell him to bring it to me-wich he does- then i tell him to drop it and i replace it with one of his toys....i was just getting worried that maybe he's thinkinng that i am rewarding him with a toy by him picking up stuff he's not suppose to...

I hope that's not the case....  cause I do that too  LOL.    I mean exchanging the things they are NOT supposed to have for things that ARE allowed.   I think your doing fine,  I think you will do fine with this dog.     Keep asking your questions sometimes people might get irritated, or seem to get irritated when in fact that's really not the case or maybe it is,  But no mind,  there are still people here who will help you,  even if they are appearing to be yelling at you,  I try to think they are not doing so with intent... though there are those few...  just grin and go with what you can take,  if some one gets into the grumpy mode,  just move on to a post that you find helpful.   Good Luck to you and have fun with that Baby,  he sounds like an absolute character with a great sense of humor, and alot of confidence.  Your doing fine !!

echo- you are at the top, with some others, on my list of  the good-guys on this board...lol , i think his confidence is bigger then he is, maybe to much....thanks for your help and putting up with my questions :  )

IF HD were completely genetic, we'd be seeing a lot less of it than we do, since many dogs are now routinely screened before breeding. Some of it is envirnonmental, some believe it can be due to LACK of exercise, leading to poor muscle development which allows the hips to slip out of place. Exercise on the wrong surfaces (hard, slippery surfaces) has also been blamed for problems.

I do know this, from my work with horses: the stress of exercise causes the bone to remodel itself and become stronger and denser. Also, the ligaments that hold joints in place are not elastic. If they stretch, that's it, they stay stretched. Developing the muscles around the joints makes them stronger, and helps to protect them from injury.

thanks sunsilver---we have a big yard,  and as far as i know he is getting a lot of excercise...we go out some during the day but not to long, its been sooo hot, over 100 f lately, that none of the dogs want or can , stay out long in it....but in the evening time, when my kids come home from school, they all stay out in the yard and play, running all over, playing ball..etc...the kids love to play monkey in the middle with him...

is this enough excercise for this age?, or should i have him do more?  im kinda confused on this cause some say to much will hurt hips/ not enough will hurt hips...what would yall estimate to be the right amount of excercise for a 5mth old male?

dkiah, excellent advice.    We made that same mistake once and never will again.  A hard lesson learned.

Dogs will form their own pack which is more important to them then you are.  It is good practice to be first and formost his main interest  for now, otherwise he will continue to blow you off.   Hip and elbow problems can also be caused by how they are raised, excercise, play, and food can contribute good and bad.  I've seen issue too often with equines that have been fed wrong, or worked wrong, or too young and have caused bone and joint issues to not believe that can contribute.   The best advice you've gotten seems to have rubbed you wrong.

One other caution, the dogs mad dashes through the house can injure you or one of your kids.  I was playing ball with one of our girls last March.  I ended up with a dislocated knee cap and grade 4 MCL tear.  It's not only the dogs that can end up injured.......

animules---my problem was not the advice itself, it was that he/ she? yell it at me--using!!!---like i already knew that and that i was choosing to do it wrong.....could have explained like you did instead of quote>>If they need to burn energy that should be done with YOU!! when they are so young.. your dogs are bonding to each other!! youwill never be able to compete!!<<<

there is no explanation in that..? i have never heard of that and would have loved to been advised on it... lately i HAVE been wondering about this sorta thing, i have noticed that when outside, when i call the dogs in, (they are not ALLout of control as DKIAH put it either, my other two dogs listens to commands, i have only had small dogs for a long time and it is perfectly normal to play with RT inside, they are not as great of risk at hurting themself or others, when i tell daisy to stop---she stops-it was boss i was having troble with and if you read my first post you will see that i wrote--i will catch his collar, that gets his attention, then i make him gown into down, after he is laying down i talk to him softer and tell him calm...this usually stops him for a little while....what i want to know is---am i doing the right thing.? -)so im not "letting them do it....i was making sure this was a right way to stop him from doing it....... anyway, when i call , daisy and roscoe come right that second, boss will hesitate and look to them to see if they are gonna go or not....so i am not against the advice, just don't understand why he had to put it like that....

and instead of helping me fix the problem, i just keep getting scolded for it, like i am allowing it....i am asking because i am trying to fix it so just telling me..you gotta stop that or whatever, tell me how to stop it....

im sorry if anyone gets upset, im sorry that i am upset, i am just tired of everytime a question is asked, i have to spend most of my time typing A POST LIKE THIS ONE, instead talking about how to fix the problem....

Angela Kovaks: No, HD is not always Genetic.  Some people think that HD only on one side (like my female) is almost always environmental.  The result of HD (bone/ joint not fitting properly together) over time is arthritis this can be caused by HD or trauma/injury to the joint.  Many factors can also cause or make the condition worse than it otherwise would be ...ie. being overweight, over excersise (I hate hearing when people "go jogging" with their 4 month old puppy), lots of jumping etc. here is something on HD http://www.4germanshepherds.com/Dysplasia.htm

Echo, I know the positioning is way off and I did take her to the University of Penn for another xray, they did get it straighter but with the amount of degenrative joint disease in that hip it is nearly impossible to get it positioned correctly, below is the better xray.  Just by looking at the hip and now knowing what I am looking at better positioning isn't going to do jack to make that hip look better.

.

iluvmygsd:

I am very sorry I did not mean to sound nasty at all, my apologies for it comming across like that.  I was not yelling or trying to be rude, I intened for it to come across "urgent" like a very serious issue.  I understand you are trying to stop it, but I don't think you understood the possible ramifications to this activity...THIS is what I was trying to get across.  I was deeply devistated by my females xray results and it took a long time for me to even talk about it, not to mention come to grips with the idea that I may have contributed by allowing the roughhousing that I thought was so amusing. 

When I read your statement that I quoted about the pup running into the wall his hips were all I could think of, I stopped reading and started writing.  Most of my post was not just intened for you but to educate others. 

If I was your breeder reading the type of activity you described, it he does get HD I would not honor any guarantees<<<< why would you say something like that to me, like you think im a awful person that would blame others for something not their fault

That is sooo not how I intened you to take that.  Most people are so quick to jump down the breeders throats...not to say you would be but in general.  Most people like Angela don't even know HD can be environmental...thats what I was trying to get out there. 

Also I WASNT YELLING!  I was just letting you know what can happen from a VERY painful personal experience.  You are being entirely to defensive and sensitive, I don't think Dikah was yelling either. 

SWIMMING is the BEST excersise for a growing pup, it is VERY easy on growing bones and joints.