Wildsteigerland kennel - Page 2

Also, look at the acetabulum on the right, what do you think? Genetic or not?

BabyEagle, this dog was not crated, but housed in a typical German style wooden kennel, which are very large (800-110 sqft), they look like a small house. This kennel where the dog lived was set up at a different location though. Part of the lawsuit against the Wildsteiger Land kennel and also in the blog were car expenses listed consisting of 3 trips a day to this kennel, which was located in the back yard of the owners father. In addition, in the magazine articles from earlier this year the owner mentions that after the dog was x-rayed, he could then no longer take him bicycling. The blog also confirms in the listing of expenses that the dog was taken for bicycle rides and in-line skating. I assume that this was in reference to the time before the x-rays, surely such exercise would not have been advisable after, though a total of 964 days to make these trips are mentioned. At 13 months, just prior to the time this dog was x-rayed, he still moved well enough to place SG5 in the Youth Class at the Belgian Sieger Show, which needs a lot of preparation and conditioning. So this dog was running next to the bicycle regularly before he was old enough to be x-rayed which would automatically void any guarantees that we give for example because you just don't do that to a growing body. And this was compounded by intense show training at a very young age as well. Yes, I would assume that the stress on that young body certainly took its toll. I also find the changes in the acetabulum of concern, especially for such a young dog. I have seen x-rays of several young dogs with poor hips but have never seen these types of changes in the acetabulum before at that age.
This dog may have been predisposed for the expression of HD since there is a dysplastic brother, but we do not know what the other owner did with their dog that may have had an effect on that dogs hips. And even if such a predisposition for HD exists, it is well known that with a breed like the GSD there is always at the very least a slight chance of it, and with proper precautions it may never manifest itself. To say GSD breeders produce crappy dogs with bad hips is a bit far out since it must have come from somewhere starting with the original founders of the breed and will therefore never be completely erradicated. Never mind that skelletal finds that are 5thousand years old confirm that HD already existed in canids back then. A pup with a low ZW and several generations of HD free parents does not automatically give the owner a free for all to stress that young growing body. We know from human athletes that stressing young bodies will be detremental to their health later in life, why can't we not accept the same for our dogs?
cont...

What bugs me about all this, even though loosing a dog is always very tragic regardless of the reason, is that any and all alternate treatments were refused (ie removal of the femoral head which is a pretty common procedure now would have removed the source of pain, created a sliding joint and the muscles in the area would have stabilized the hip and restored mobility, the other side was still ok after all), pain management was refused, a-stamp submission was refused, the first x-rays taken were not even good enough for submission, reason for time of euthanasia was given on this board that the dog could no longer participate in 4km (2.5mi) walks (what happens to the next dog when he can no longer do that at age 6 or 8 or 10?), statistics were cooked up and then tweaked and deliberately misrepresented to prove how terrible HD in GSDs is supposed to be, though this could have been a great opportunity to come up with something very constructive for GSD breeders instead. And that stories keep changing. Long term readers of this board will probably remember well that a hip replacement was right out refused by the owner, but alas, now emerging articles about the Indiana story claim that a hip replacement was considered but not possible because of the bone being too porous.
But most of all - all the hoopla for a dog that did not even live at home... I have to say my jaw does not drop often, but it did the day that I read that this dog was not even living at home folks. This is not a dog that laid on the sofa with the owner, slept on his bed, shared his every minute of the day with him. He lived in an off-site kennel and had visitations and outings 3 times a day. About time it is being said to put all this 'pain' in the right perspective here.

Quote from the blog (http://www.bloggen.be/hd/archief.php?ID=14  about one third down)
"Fahrtkosten zum Zwinger: 
Indiana wohnte im schönen Garten meiner Eltern, wo bereits seit meine Kindheit immer DSH gewohnt haben, und wo er sich tagsüber frei bewegen konnte. Dreimal täglich fuhr ich dorthin um ihn zu versorgen, laufen, Fahrradfahren oder in-line skating zu gehen, für sonstige Ausflüge mit der Tochter mitzunehmen, oder für das Training abzuholen, etc.
Die Entfernung beträgt 3,5 Km, täglich fuhr ich somit 3 x 7 Km = 21 Km.
Seit 29. August 2003 fuhr ich also, abgesehen von einigen wenigen Ausnahmen circa 964 Tage x 21 Km = 20.244 KM – abzügl. obige Trainingsfahrten 2.160 Km =
18.084 Km x  à 0.088 EURO/Km = 1.591,39 EUR."

Thank you, D.H. I still think about that dog and it makes me very, very sad.

Very good, DH, well said!

The x-rays tell the tale. Sorry.

Been in a similar situation myself like lots of people no doubt, great young dog, plenty of stud enquries from reputable kennels, big hopes for the future, then it's all taken away due to bad hip results. Of course it's devastating but if you bought the dog as a pup and it was bred from parents with acceptable hips you have to accept the fact it's just bad luck, it's a chance you take, the alternative is to buy a young adult that's already been x-rayed but then you have to pay more. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Quote: “He lived in an off-site kennel and had visitations and outings 3 times a day”.

Indiana vom Wildsteiger Land was a family dog living on the premises of my (old) parents where several members of the family had the joy of sharing their lives with him. I am the one who bought the dog, yes, was so to speak only the handler, or the trainer, as he had to relate to the whole family including grand-parents, my brother and sisters and all of our children. “Home” for Indiana was right there D.H., and Indiana was never alone, the whole family shared every minute with him. What is wrong with that? What are you trying to say? And yes, on top of his luxury life, he was taken for tours, trainings, rides, rollerblading, biking, etc.

(Look at the PowerPointPresentation of his life:

http://jantie.demeyere.googlepages.com/IndianavomWildsteigerLand.pps

“Part of the lawsuit against the Wildsteiger Land kennel and also in the blog were car expenses listed consisting of 3 trips a day to this kennel…”

This is a total misrepresentation of the facts. The listed expenses are a documentation on my blog only, to show money (and distance) was not an issue, and that we could not care less about money, to train and spoil him. It was NOT a part of the lawsuit.

And there is no “backyard” in the garden of my parents house. Indiana’s night kennel was in the centre of the garden, where he could oversee practically everything. The house, the entrance, the backdoor, etc. Are you saying all GSDs must sleep in the bed of their owners at all times?

You wrote about Ice and I quote: “but we do not know what the other owner did with their dog that may have had an effect on that dogs hips…”

Now this is exemplary. You’re definitely trying to shove the responsibility for HD into the shoes of the owners, no matter what, instead of admitting the huge problem of the GSD-breed. (DENIAL! DENIAL!) “Oh! The dog has canine hip dysplasia! The owner must have been a total dog-idiot with no knowledge whatsoever.” How ignorant can one be?

There was nothing wrong with the training of Indiana as a young dog. His brother Ice was in the hands of experienced GSD-lovers also. Both Indiana and Ice went to GSD-training clubs where experienced trainers educate and correct their members if necessary. GSD-training in Belgium is the best in the world. Both owners DID NOT SHOVE THE HD INTO THE DOG!

I daresay you’re putting a lot of trouble into defending the bad breeding of German top breeders D.H. Let me repeat myself: it is NOT enough to select an HD1 sire and an HD1 female for breeding. One has to take into account all littermates of both parents, and MORE ancestors (littermates of grandparents, etc.)

Confronted with this philosophy in court, my breeder responded if he had to do just this, he could stop breeding altogether. How about that for a statement?

Today every insider knows that the Zuchtwertschätzung of the SV (as it is being performed today) is crap. Breeders go for pre-screening of the pups at young ages and don’t send in their bad results of the older ones when done, even threaten people/owners should they consider sending a bad x-ray to the SV (it might just make their stud/bitch look bad, at least hurt their ZW) and SV-associated Vets even tell their customers NOT to send in the (bad) results to the club “to save costs”.

Change your insufficient breeding regulations like other countries have done and less dogs will be born with dysplasia.

Another quote: “there is always at the very least a slight chance of it (dysplasia)”

is a huge understatement. Less than half of the GSDs have sound hips. Prove me otherwise!

Quote: “it must have come from somewhere starting with the original founders of the breed and will therefore never be completely eradicated.”

Max von Stephanitz would have taken the proper measures to get rid of HD. Little did he know his working dog was to be replaced by a show dog, and his breeding club was to be devided into two distinguished populations (one trying to save the working characteristics of the GSD, the other trying to make more money).