A coat or not a coat? - Page 2

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/350587.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/391549.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/454259.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/507644.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/473012.html

and their getting GOOD ratings in Germany... I wonder...???

These are are all longcoats. In fact, the last one has both longcoated parents and 2 out 4 grandparents are coats. I suspect that Germany may have all-breed shows (non-SV shows) where longcoats be shown and rated--sort of like Shiloh Shepherds in the USA.

There is no such thing as a borderline longcoat. Ghandi is not a coat--just very plush.

Louise, do you think Ghandi (or any other very plush GSD) would DNA test positive as a recessive carrier or a coat?

Not only do you need to look for titles and breed surveys, you also need to ask who issued them. The first dog is a KKL1 and phenotypically a coat. I didn't know it was possible to earned a KKL1 in Germany or from a German judge it it was a coat. Do some ever trim the dog prior to the breed survey? Not saying that is the case with the dog I mentioned, just asking since it does happens in the AKC ring;  coated dogs are professionally trimmed in order to earned titles in breeds where longocoats are faults or DQ's.

I guess I could say Blitz too is a KKL1 and no one would be any the wiser .

"Louise, do you think Ghandi (or any other very plush GSD) would DNA test positive as a recessive carrier or a coat?"

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I think he would test positive as a recessive carrier--assuming the parameters of the test are valid. However, a practical test would be breeding a Ghandi-type dog to a coated bitch. If, in the resultant litter of 8-10 pups, 100% of the pups were coated (not just plush), it would be logical to believe that the sire was indeed coated, too.

Statistics may yield strange results. In another "lifetime" of AKC breeding, I bred my Ch. UDT male twice to my coated UDT female. In the first litter of 9, there were 4 coats. In the second litter of 8, there were no coats!! I had an AKC breeder friend (who normally put down coat suspects at 2.5-3 weeks !!!) take a look at the second litter. Her response: "Gee, Louise, I don't know. Either they are all coats or there are no coats." There were no coats in the second litter!!!

Sometimes, while I'm not a geneticist, I believe there may be polygenetic factors in coat inheritance. I had another AKC friend who had an accidental breeding when she kenneled together a male with a female longcoats. The breeder claimed that there were no coats in the litter of several pups.

Yes, there have been several trimmed coated AKC champions. I recall mother and daughter champions who were both trimmed longcoats.

Perhaps the KKl 1 in Germany was issued by a judge for an all-breed organization (and breed registry) or a club designed specifically for coats--that is, non-SV. There is a frequent contributor to this board who successfully shows her coated male at non-AKC shows.

And the reason while I'm  digging deep into this LONG COAT or PLUSH  issue is... although the owner of one imported entry claims his pup who won VV1 in the recent Landesgruppen this weekend, says his import is not long coat  (but noticeably trimmed just below the ear region) and says that the 6-9 month old pup is just blowing his coat ( too early to blow coat...) I cant stand it but critique on the large pups coat consistency (The top coat was very loose... and definetely will not be weatherproof...) I hate to say this but Germany is trying to get rid of this increasing output of LC's  and they are reaching my countries shores that is in the Tropics... nd they are using the LGZS to get rid of them...

Louise is right... maybe its because the judge was not S.V. and just a breed specialty judge... I choose not to enter my pup and was told to wait for the National sieger shows  this coming  November... I was told to give it upto a year when my pups coat had all shed and that no more baby hair (the soft ones below the ears protruding...note... its not inside but below the ears) appearing...

O.K. Im just heartbroken that is... but I need to correct this fault in the next breeding...(I'm planning of outcrossing to a Grey Sable, non-German line known to produce just short or stock coats to probably dilute the LC in my line.) We dont have breed surveys and only rely on the imports brought by officers of our National GSD specialty Club... I need to have a good and impartial critique this comming sieger show...and I hope the judge will be seing the dog not by its details but of its overall breed value...

have a nice day...Marci

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/350587.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/454259.html

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/391549.html

And their getting ... V -ratings and Koered... I wonder...???

In which country?

I'm not sure that every photo is actually the dog it names, some internet trolls have had themselves a good time using phoney dogs and making up pedigrees on this board.

The ones i've posted so far came from Germany... and they have it on both sides of the pedigree...

These ones I rather believe and that probably the bloodline is important to them to maintain type than improve the line...

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/324551.html