Breeding question... - Page 2

Well yeah, a closed genepool is death, but the differences in the show vs working has just gotten too far out of hand. I have seen working dogs that had good gdrive and nerves but crappy character, and showdogs that had crappy drives, good nerves, and great character. Problem with this is that the lines are so far apart now that you get major inconsistancies in the litters. Sure, every once in a while you can get a bitch/dog  that is all that, and can get good stuff, but this is to flukey for me.

One of the biggest problems we have here is that 10% of the breeders are going one way, 33% another way, 4% another.......you get the idea.

I absolutly love this breed, somewhere along the line I have just decided to stick with Mals, but if people could just even come close to going the same way.

I say we start by not breeding a dog based on his color. Look on the inside. What do you say???

Jeff, you're talking extremes here, though. In my opinion, you should never breed extremes, even of they come from the same line!  The lines are not as badly separated as you think, if you purposely look for dogs that are well rounded structurally and mentally.

I know a czech/east german dog that has damn amazing structure, very calm and clear headed with intense drive. One of the most serious dogs I know. I've seriously considered him for one of my showline females, but as I said before, I haven't done my homework yet on the working lines.

I also know some insanely soft and neurotic showline dogs, and some working dogs with off the wall drive but structure so bad they almost have corgi-like proportions. Of course, those are not candidates for this type of cross! (Not candidates for much of anything, in my opinion.)

And I think its an unfair assesment that wayyyy too many people make when they say the showlines are too angulated to work.  What about the working line dogs that are so long they look like a boxcar and their backs are so weak I'm amazed they can make it over an A-frame? Neither dog of that type is a good representative of their line.

Jeff

 i am a huge fan of the mals. i have one. why the mals are the way they are is due to how they are bred. the malinois breeders don't care about looks at all all they want is to breed to the best performance dog regardless of what the pedigree says. if the dog dosn't have a pedigree they make one up. i have a friend that just did a 2,2 line breeding with his mals and the smallest one was 35lb and the largest one was 90lb. now thats inconsistancies although they were pretty uniform temp. wise.     if breeders of gsd's do these out crosses between working and show sure there will be inconsistancies for a generation or two but down the road it will be very benificial to the breed.

Crossing a showline with a workingline to improve looks and structure is stupid, because I highly doubt the showlines have the perfect structure for hard work, neither the mentality  either most times. Why not breed two good workingdogs instead, with good structure and proven workingdogs in the peedigree many generations?

And how could the genepool be to small in the most common workingbreed we have, it must have been to much overbreeding on a few dogs over the years if that is the case, wich I doubt it is if you look at all GSDs from workinglines around the world.

I disagree! Before we can build, the foundation has to be in place.  In other words, the gap has to shortened between the two before this bridge is built.  The working breeders need to concentrate on the confirmation and Show breeders need to concentrate on the working ability, etc.  Both of these groups must seek the beneficially superior genes in each pool to come a bit closer.  They must weed out and stay away from the bad confirmations and for the show breeders, the poor working show lines.  You can't take dogs too far apart and expect a uniform litter of great working dogs with this so-called confirmation.

I think Workingdog is on the right track if this is your goal.  In my opinion, which isn't much, I would rather stick to the two seperate breeds.  Maybe I would change my mind if that bridge was built, but I just cant picture the two sides coming together.  With that being said, I'll take the tunnel.

Don I agree with you and your considered opinion.

gsdslvr2

Please look up Navar z Pohranicni straze.  This is a product of Working X  Show.

I would be ashamed.

Sorry, just an opinion!

OK working dog, I can see where there are extremes, but it is a good way to get your point across. I owned a GSD from American show and German working lines. The only problem that I had with this dog structurally was the sickle hocks that he had. Granted, he could run all my other dogs into the ground when we went for bike rides, but he would get caught up on the pallisade, actually hanging there.

Structural integrity is one of my biggest problems with show people. Oh, the back is too long. Thing is, the dog is doing the work. I do not see the roach back that is constantly promoted as working out really well for work. I have never seen a FR dog look like that. My old buddy Axel was a beautiful dog, but I remember having to get him off the palisade, as he was hung up there by his own structural fault.

Unless I start seeing a lot more showline people putting titles on dogs, read NOT SCHUTZHUND, it is hard for me to take their idea of structure seriously. From what I remember from back in the day when I still had show friends LOL , a Mal shouldn't be able to pee without falling down, and shouldn't be able to jump his shadow. (exagerations! )

This is a good discussion. : )

I want to add that I would love to see ONE German SHepherd.  I'm sick of explaining to people outside our world, the differences between the lot.