Difference between Czech and DDR dogs - Page 2

Genes do matter, so if the Czech genes are really different (many share lines with DDR), a Czech dog could be different.  But how much?  Nature v nurture -- nature, or genetics, can only matter so much, and the empirical tests (see Willis, who unfortunately neglects DDR and Czech lines) shows that heritability from parents is remarkably low.  (Breeders with expensive dogs may not want to believe it, but it's true.)

Say genes could matter 50% and environment/training the other 50% -- no legitimate study of heritability of traits has ever shown anything other than "height at withers" to have this much predictablity, as most behavioral traits are 5% to 25% predicted by parents -- it is still true that each littermate sharing the same parents only share 50% of THOSE genes.   Imagine if you were not talking about the whole range of Czech dogs and DDR dogs, but one particular pedigree of each -- even then, a pedigree has much less information than you think!  Say an average gsd litter has seven pups -- so seven pups have the same pedigree as the sire and seven was the dam -- there are 49 combinations of dogs who could be bred to produce precisely the same pedigree!  In those 49 litters, the strongest pups in the best versus the weakest pups in the worst would be considerable.   Without a doubt, the overlap of those 49 litters of DDR pups with one pedigree and the 49 litters of Czech dogs with another identical pedigree would be huge.

So knowing the nationality of the dog gives you no more than a little headstart.  Knowing the pedigree more of a headstart, but only that.  Sadly for this big exciting game of buying dogs from afar, one cannot know much about a dog unless you or someone who knows something real spends time training and living with and testing the dog.  The rest is fiction and fantasy -- mixed with prejudice -- and that fuels the fun of the game, but it is not real.

"The rest is fiction and fantasy -- mixed with prejudice -- and that fuels the fun of the game, but it is not real."

What he said

In the end, evaluate both parents yourself, to the best of your experience. Or, bring someone dog-savvy along with. Each dog is an individual. It'd be ideal if you could either temperament test the litter yourself, or, have access to the video, if one was taken by the breeder as she evals the pups.. if she uses a test to do so rather than general daily observations alone. Personally, I think hearing generalizations can help or muddy the waters-- depending. My own experience is that it is a great idea to do at least *some* testing on the puppies yourself for nerves, if they are DDR lines especially. Czech lines are NOT always extreme in activity level or drives, but can be calm, stable, focused-- settle calmly in the house following regular, normal excersise. Yes, some *are* firebrands. It truly depends on the dog. Bear in mind also, that few sports enthusiasts are likely to brag that their dog settles easily in the home, has medium drives, is a calm dog. Mine is. He's my handicap-assistance dog in training.    

Here is my two cents. I have a Czech bitch who is 90% of the time totally and completely off the wall. My wife cannot stand her because she is constantly moving and constantly has something in her mouth. IF it was not for the crate I think she would never sleep. ON the flip side to that I ahve a frined who has a Czech male that has a ton of drive on the field or out on hikes but settles and is completely calm in the house.

It really depends on the individual dog and how you raise them.

B.Anderson

What would you consider a late Bloomer?

I started another thread about drives...because I didnt want to hijack this one...

Thanks for any info 

I've noticed that DDR lines have rich pigment with more bi-colors and dark sables, and while Czech lines have rich pigment, lighter shades of sable are more common colors in Czech lines. Czech lines are also lighter(size-wise) than DDR lines. DDR lines tend to have big heads and big bones, while Czech lines are a little more refined. And of course, there are exceptions to every rule.

Well, I am trying to set up a time to meet her, her dogs, the puppies, and I emailed her telling her, I do plan on temperament testing what's left of the litter, and I am bringing along my Clatter stick...I can't help but think of Teddy Rosevelt, "Speak softly and carry a big stick". Just to see how the puppies are. I will report back as soon as I have been invited over to her home for a viewing. Any suggestions other than a Temperament Test, and bringing the Clatter stick to evaluate the litter?  I am looking for a puppy for sport/SchH so if I missed anything, feel free to supply help!