The virtues and weakness of present show lines. - Page 2

I have seen criticism here on the show line GSD which to a big extent I agree with:

Upper limit of height & weight
Toplines: Arched, roached, over sloping
Stretched bodies
Unbalanced dogs
Steep upper arms
Over angulation in the hind quarters
Cow hocks
Tight bloodlines, limited gene pool


Ibrahim

I want to add a shining point on the bloodlines; It is known that most of the top VA studs which dominate the GSD population since 1980s go back either to Palm/Xaver or Palm/Irk and heavey breeding on the Arminius Q litter.
In 2011 I noticed that 3 males out of the 10 VAs, the bloodline (Sire side) does not go back to Palm:
VA1 male Remo vom Fichtensclag go back twice in the third generation to Hill vom Farbenspiel which further go back to Cello without the Palm genes.
VA6 male Nino von Tronje goes back to Mark vom Haus Beck who has no Palm genes.
VA7 male Mentos vom Osterberger Land on Sire side go back to Enzo von Buckhorn and further to Mark, no Palm.
I have also noticed that 3 females out of the 10 VAs, the bloodline does not go back to Palm:
The VA1 female Jaci vom Eichenplatz goes back twice in the first three generations to Hill vom Farbenspiel.
The VA6 female Musa di Ca'San Marco also on the Sire side goes back to Hill.
Also the VA8 female Quana von der Biberfalle goes back to Enzo von Buchhorn on the Sire side which goes further back to Mark vom Haus Beck who does not have the Palm genes.
So both VA1 male and female do not go back to Palm, that hopefully means the SV is paying better attention to the bloodlines genes condensation, I wish they take a sharp turn and look for a VA1 from the working bloodlines like Bomber vom Wolfsheim

I don't know most of those bloodlines I will be researching them later. I can say my female Nala is line bred on Mark vom haus beck, and I love her.  I will be figuring out later today how to get pics up so I will post some (although I only have fun pics of her) but she is gorgeous.  She is a very feminine bitch nice color, but the big thing for me as I've said before is her personality, especially coming from the background she had before I got her, the fact that she pulled out of it so beautifully has got to have something to do with good genetics I don't know if Mark Vom Haus Beck is where she got it but if it is I would definately purchase another one out of that line.

Donnerstorm, if you have a photobucket account, all you need to do to post photos is copy the hyperlink from the picture you want, click the little button under the B (for bold) above this writing box, and input the link in the space provided.

Voila, posted picture :)

Thankyou all for the inputs,yes I feel that widening of Gene pool should be the first priority by SV as most of the VA's go back to Uran/Odin.The Cello line has very good working ability but does anybody notice colour paling in this line now?,Mark haus beck passed good headmasks,colour and working abilities.Can we discuss the virtues and weaknesses of these lines to the present  GSD VA's for eg Ando Altenberger land,Ilbo Holtkaemper see is known to pass on very good Hips please correct me if I am wrong and I would love this discussion to go further with more and more inputs from personal experiences or SV gathered information.

In a forum discussion (2003) the famous kennel (Herding dogs) “Kirschental” (Fuller) stated –

“I think a lot of the actual problems in health and working abilities are the result of repeated inbreeding on the same ancestors, as we see in the Leistungszucht too.  I believe, and other experienced breeders will agree with me, that a litter without inbreeding (outcross) is more robust and there are fewer problems. You see the same in farm livestock  breeding.  We did breed a wonderful unity in Type but what did it cost us?  The first 50 dogs of a Hauptzuchtschau are look-a-likes and have the same anatomy and outlook, BUT WE DON’T NEED A UNIFORM TOTALITY, WE DO NEED MORE DIVERSITY PARTICULARLY IN THE BLOODLINES.  WE DO NEED A WIDER BASIS IN OUR BREEDING.”

It is true that too much of Inbreeding gives Inbreeding depression and one generation outcrossing is the only best way to prevent this,also outcrossing prevents so many reccessive inherited disorders.But Inbreeding is important to achieve the desired type and also to have the consistency in siblings and offspring.I think the best way is to Line breed for 2-3 generations and then outcross so that you maintain the type and also get the vigor and drives.

TYPE and only type is the reason where we stand this day, I think breeders should breed for type amongst other things such as traits ................................................................ etc.

Ibrahim

If you google - Jagenstadt German Shepherds-  you will find a number of very interesting articles written by Fred Lanting regarding his impressions of dogs exhibited at a number of German Siegers. I don't think Oli wants us to refer to links here so I won't, but it's easy to find this website and locate the articles button  at the top of the home page.  



 

Blitzen,

Thank you so much, I found the site and there are impressions for year 2000 till 2009, I will be enjoying reading them in the coming few days, there are few more interesting articles too. Once again thanks a lot, very nice of you indeed.

Ibrahim