Donatella

Still a year or so away from possibly breeding this female, and am hoping someone would peer thru her pedigree and give opinions on which direction would/might be best

The Tom z Pohranicni Straze/Cordon An-Sat line is on both sides but its 5 gens back.  Varna z Pohranicini Straze is fourth gen and leads back to Grim (also Grim is both sides if I recall correctly).  Norbert Aritar Bastet is probably the most noteable dog up close in the third generation. 

My dog in particular has some very good attributes;  Fluid movement, nice topline and angulation, very fast/agile, intense focus and works thru hot temps, pronounced prey drive with an apparent low prey threashold, deep, hard natural grips, incredibly sound and biddable.  The jury is still out on how much civil drive is there, and that would factor into a male selection at the time.

Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!

 

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When are you having her hips, etc. evaluated? This is especially important because I see a lot of non-evaluated dogs in the pedigree and one that is only has Fair hips.

Are you working on any titles or certifications with her? Is she currently working in some capacity? Sport or conformation? This could be a big help showing potential buyers more objective assessment of drives, abilities, and trainability since her most recent ancestors (parents and grandparents) aren't titled or indicated as working on the pedigree. If there are omissions, see about getting them corrected (both good and bad).

What are your goals for the litter? Intended potential uses for the puppies?

What are her faults and shortcomings? Whatever stud you pick needs to have strengths in these areas to offset/improve, in addition to other qualities sought for the litter's purpose.

Appreciate your perspective, @GSCat, however, my question is more about line strengths behind her versus continued open pedigree planning at this point. Unknowns come with each. She's only 13 mos, and I as I stated I'm simply considering her at this point. On her next heat (she's currently in her second) I'll be measuring progesterone and ovulation markers, and she won't be evaluated for hips until >24mos. I've had her nearly 11 mos and from day one she offered natural tendency for persistent retrieval, handler engagement, heeling, nose work etc. At this point she has qualities any serious breeder, SAR personnel or sport enthusiast would seriously consider. The question that remains is to what degree she and the prospective stud can recreate themselves, and what the litter itself produces. Aside from that, part of my interest is to have another personal dog from her and possibly one to two pups placed with close family members.

I tend to agree on the dog with fair hips, though it isn't uncommon in many pedigrees. As far as parents and first three generations I have little to no qualms about any of the dogs, until shown adverse evidence. There is a a working IGP3 female (aunt) Luna Felder Haus, off Dex I believe. Also, Saphire Shepherds Zoot is an accomplished dog, from accomplished dogs. (their site outlines the lineages and accomplishments - lot of SAR work apparently) The PDB entries would need to be updated by those entry creators. As far as sports ratings, I identify them for what they are, one metric. It's a good metric, but it all comes down to the two dogs paired. Too many sports dogs are wrong for anything other than sports, IMO. My goal is to produce solid temperament, healthy, strong dogs. She's all that and more to date. If she comes back with questionable health, she'll be scratched as a breeder. And no two pups are identical from a litter, but with the right male, sport type is highly likely. Thanks again.

Here's a good article from PDB since the 'fair' hips concern was brought up above:

https://www.pedigreedatabase.com/articles.html?s=hd-zuchtwert-breed-value-assessment-number

It comports with what a lot of breeders already know. If a dog brings otherwise significant attributes to a breeding, it shouldn't necessarily be discounted from breeding, because of a fair/normal hip rating (which was inferred above about an ancestor [Jetta] of my dog).

It's amazing that a dog with 96% working dog titles in seven generations only invited a crass comment. Oh well - that's the internet.

I don't think pointing out a potential issue is crass.

I care very much about the health of individual puppies and the breed, and it's the first thing I look at when I look at a pedigree. I and many other people have had to have dogs put down for hip, spine, etc. and have experienced and seen up-close-and-personal the suffering for both dog and handler/owner. I, personally, prefer the side of caution, but understand trade-offs.  I, personally, won't breed clear to a carrier, although that is generally accepted practice.  I won't buy a pup/dog that's a carrier if I'm intending to use him or her for breeding because some carriers have developed some conditions that they theoretically shouldn't get based on only having one and not both genes, and I don't want to produce more puppies that are carriers.  They are learning more about the genetic components of many conditions that cause suffering, etc., and maybe someday a lot of these can be bred out of the gene pool, specific reasons for dogs with only one gene for conditions that are generally understood to require having both genes to get, and conditions can be cured or more effectively treated when they do show up. 

As you noted, titles are only one metric, and lack of such in dogs that are working in particular functions is not a huge issue, depending on the specific dogs and intended use(s) for puppies in the litter. Missing information in pedigrees doesn't help online communication. I commented on this possibility in my post.  I don't know if Admin on PDB will add titles and health information to dogs if someone without edit rights to the dog(s) provides proof to them, but it doesn't hurt to PM one and ask.

I do like that you're starting way ahead of time, planning ahead, going to do health testing, and willing to forego breeding in the event of adverse results.  Good luck with your dog and whatever you decide about breeding her. 

Fair points, to a fault GScat. If you view the OFA guidelines on E-G-F hips, they all fall within the NORMAL range of acceptance.  As far as pointing out a potential issue - two dogs with perfect hips can throw pups with bad hips.  

When the first words from an online poster are to criticize supposedly "non-working" dogs and a "fair" hip rating on one ancestor, (apparently dismissing seven generations of direct dogs that set the gene pool) then it seems like a hollow quip. My question is how many of the near dogs have you worked with or even seen in person? Is your last name Fields? I'm not being antagonistic, but the litter mate to Xander [Xurk] is literally a tracking rated dog. And as I stated above, Luna Felder Haus is an IGP3 dog. No, they aren't my particular dog, but even if I only knew the purity of my dog, I'd still be where I am in my assessment of her, BASED ON THE DOG IN FRONT OF ME. What I can say is that if I see one more half-bred looking female GS bred off a "Chris Spod" son, I'll probably puke. So unless you're her breeder, I doubt you've evaluated my dog, and most likely her parents, or their parents,. You seem to insinuate there's lineage dilution. If you believe the lines are diluted, you're welcome to state which dogs are inferior - and why you feel that way. I could appreciate that.
Cheers

Perhaps online communication . . .

Please re-read my post. I said working in a function can make up for lack of titles. This is because it shows trainability and ability to do that function.  Lack of both can disuade some buyers.

I never said anything about dilution of lines or that the dogs in the pedigree were not working lines.

You asked for input. I gave what I could based what I could see online here on PDB. It's not my fault that I can't see omitted information on the pedigree.

Obviously, I don't see or know your dog. If I personally knew one or more of the close ancestors in the pedigree I would have said so and might have been able to provide more or better input because I would have known more about the dogs and that there was missing information. I would have also told you that there was missing information in case you didn't know, since you didn't indicate anything about missing information in the pedigree in your OP.

As I said, good luck with your dog and whatever you decide about breeding her. Maybe someone else will reply that you like their feedback better, but then again, maybe not after seeing how you're treating someone that honestly tried to help.
 

Appreciate the clarification GScat. And, I do appreciate your input. I was more interested in breeding inclinations based off her historical lines. I know which direction I will go, but it's nice to see input from others. Some people have firsthand knowledge of dogs further back in the lineage, including which bitches a given dog was paired with that yielded less desirable litters. That can be very valuable.

I agree that online communication can be an issue. I'm totally fine with objective facts about specific dogs and lines, including mine. Diminutive, over generalized statements about someone's dog lineage can be damaging and the whole forum crowd digests that. That's unfortunately part of the forum dynamics. Sorry if I misunderstood your intentions. Have a good evening.

I currently have 2 7 month old pups that their grand father is Dex's litter mate, Dean. They are some amazing pups!

They are both extremely solid in working structure. Moderate in everything, nothing is over done with them. Both have high prey drive, high hunt drive, and they both have zero quit. The female is currently training for IGP and her brother is training for SAR work.

I will say, that if you want to maintain those older Czech style bloodlines with your girl, find an older Czech line stud. I have one personally that will be getting semen frozen from soon that may be an option for you in the future depending on how health testing goes. You're welcome to PM me if you would like.

Thanks KimHenre18. As she develops I will have a better handle on where I see her pairing needs, but it's great to hear you have had good experiences with Dean's lineage. You're description of your two pups sound pretty much like mine. She never shuts down (but she will indoors-begrudgingly). Just a hardly, full of life shepherd with great nose and hunt drive. Solid nerves, and a joy to train. I have had some discussions with Aritar Bastet, but have to admit that the world events over there give me pause for importing right now.