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by LAVK-9 on 26 March 2010 - 01:03
And so it begins. I can see that in years to come this is going to start to happen everywhere....it's only a matter of time.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8584028.stm
In the beginning of the video it seems to me that the setting was a wee bit too high as the dog screamed on the way back to the handler.Or it was just a sensitive dog.
Seems to be how most of the people in the UK train...with Keith's favorite training aid the "gentle"(neck breaking)leader.(j/k I had to say it Keith cause i know what you think of them)
Here is a site of a trainer in the UK that cuts down prongs,e-collars,and choke chains.
www.livingwithwolves.co.uk/
Soon we will all have to have gentle leaders or be clicking away at our dogs.
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/8584028.stm
In the beginning of the video it seems to me that the setting was a wee bit too high as the dog screamed on the way back to the handler.Or it was just a sensitive dog.
Seems to be how most of the people in the UK train...with Keith's favorite training aid the "gentle"(neck breaking)leader.(j/k I had to say it Keith cause i know what you think of them)
Here is a site of a trainer in the UK that cuts down prongs,e-collars,and choke chains.
www.livingwithwolves.co.uk/
Soon we will all have to have gentle leaders or be clicking away at our dogs.
by hodie on 26 March 2010 - 01:03
The e-collar is already banned in Germany. That is not to say it is still not used......
Part of the problem is that too many idiots use them because they are lazy and/or poor trainers to begin with. Used correctly, and sparingly, they are very useful tools.
Part of the problem is that too many idiots use them because they are lazy and/or poor trainers to begin with. Used correctly, and sparingly, they are very useful tools.
by CrysBuck25 on 26 March 2010 - 04:03
I have always thought the Gentle Leader thing was a crock..It wouldn't work for a lot of things, but hey, if someone is making a nice profit, it must be good.
Don't know about the e-collar, but I like the standard choke collar and would consider using the prong if I had a strong/aggressive dog that needed a little more. I have never needed one yet, but then I've never trained for competition obedience or Schutzhund.
Crys
Don't know about the e-collar, but I like the standard choke collar and would consider using the prong if I had a strong/aggressive dog that needed a little more. I have never needed one yet, but then I've never trained for competition obedience or Schutzhund.
Crys
by hodie on 26 March 2010 - 04:03
The gentle leader is a crock and my clients who use it try using it for all the wrong reasons. In ten minutes I can teach them how to control their dog without this silly device. A prong is useful, for a variety of reasons, but there are things to try first and they are not appropriate on young dogs.
But yes, if someone can make a good profit by convincing others to add unnecessary supplements to diets, use this rather than that, etc. etc., then they do it and people who don't think about it, fall for it.
But yes, if someone can make a good profit by convincing others to add unnecessary supplements to diets, use this rather than that, etc. etc., then they do it and people who don't think about it, fall for it.
by Lief on 26 March 2010 - 09:03
its not going to happen everywhere,the e-collar was born and bred in America and cut its teeth in the feilds of America its pure Americana The Brits do not understand it is all I can assure you the e collar is NEVER going to be banned in this county and its gaining [popularity worldwide this is friend of mine in Romania who is a super talented trainer he just starting using the Dgotra and they love it there[note the hat]
by GSDtravels on 26 March 2010 - 12:03
If they ban the e-collar, will that include invisible fences?
by VomRuiz on 26 March 2010 - 13:03
Or that mat that shocks the dog if he moves off of it, that someone recently posted!?
Stacy
Stacy
by tuffscuffleK9 on 26 March 2010 - 13:03
And Bark Collars!
by wolfberry on 26 March 2010 - 14:03
Apparently everything using electric that does not give pleasure apart from the vibrator.
by yoshy on 26 March 2010 - 23:03
The Posi Nazi's will take over the world one day. Period. This is the beginning to the end of the working and or service dog if it is not stopped IMO.
An e-collar used in an effective manor is a great tool. I will not debate the use of an ecollar over the Internet as people just dont seem to get it and Internet training rarely works.
However I will say I was against them once upon a time until i was educated on proper methodologies and applications for its use by top field retriever trainers. Now I train many dogs with the use of an ecollar. I will say the majority of my clients whom disagree with the use are simply ignorant to there uses and what they actually are.After showing them they are not simply a punishment tool, discussing the application of which it will be used and how the dog will learn the cooperative behavior and finally demonstrating with an ecollar trained dog- they tend to change there minds rather quickly. The other percentage of people whom cant be persuaded by its effectiveness generally are liberalistic people or are all cutsie woostie puppy (w/ 160lb African boerboel) that have developed severe issues in there dog, cant understand why, and cant bear to see a dog given a correction or fathom the possibility of an electronic device used on there dog. Many of which whom end up being put to sleep because of the issues do to there owners ignorance and views.
It burdens me that people whom dont understand training that make laws follow the positive reinforcement only crowd because of insufficient reasonings that make the dogs pay in the end. I have yet to see one of these so called trainers work through behavior modification with serious dogs, produce high level sport/working dogs, etc...... What happens when a pet owner comes to you with a whippet thats a killer and a nerve bag that want take treats? or a 90lbs serious shepherd that was in the wrong hands and is dog aggressive? or a 115lb rottie that a man biter? Until I see someone whom will go from start to finish on one of the these dogs with a high degree of reliability and success I will continue to hold the opinion that they and there methodology is severely flawed.
PS-
I am not a fan of electric fences or that bed cushion that was mentioned for many reasons.
I have also stated in ecollar debates previously i also train with choke chains, Prongs, ecollars, tugs, ball, Frisbees, food, heeling sticks, etc...... these are all tools which over the course of time have proven themselves effective. BUT THERE IS AN APPROPRIATE TOOL/TOOLS AND METHODOLOGY FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL DOG!
An e-collar used in an effective manor is a great tool. I will not debate the use of an ecollar over the Internet as people just dont seem to get it and Internet training rarely works.
However I will say I was against them once upon a time until i was educated on proper methodologies and applications for its use by top field retriever trainers. Now I train many dogs with the use of an ecollar. I will say the majority of my clients whom disagree with the use are simply ignorant to there uses and what they actually are.After showing them they are not simply a punishment tool, discussing the application of which it will be used and how the dog will learn the cooperative behavior and finally demonstrating with an ecollar trained dog- they tend to change there minds rather quickly. The other percentage of people whom cant be persuaded by its effectiveness generally are liberalistic people or are all cutsie woostie puppy (w/ 160lb African boerboel) that have developed severe issues in there dog, cant understand why, and cant bear to see a dog given a correction or fathom the possibility of an electronic device used on there dog. Many of which whom end up being put to sleep because of the issues do to there owners ignorance and views.
It burdens me that people whom dont understand training that make laws follow the positive reinforcement only crowd because of insufficient reasonings that make the dogs pay in the end. I have yet to see one of these so called trainers work through behavior modification with serious dogs, produce high level sport/working dogs, etc...... What happens when a pet owner comes to you with a whippet thats a killer and a nerve bag that want take treats? or a 90lbs serious shepherd that was in the wrong hands and is dog aggressive? or a 115lb rottie that a man biter? Until I see someone whom will go from start to finish on one of the these dogs with a high degree of reliability and success I will continue to hold the opinion that they and there methodology is severely flawed.
PS-
I am not a fan of electric fences or that bed cushion that was mentioned for many reasons.
I have also stated in ecollar debates previously i also train with choke chains, Prongs, ecollars, tugs, ball, Frisbees, food, heeling sticks, etc...... these are all tools which over the course of time have proven themselves effective. BUT THERE IS AN APPROPRIATE TOOL/TOOLS AND METHODOLOGY FOR EACH INDIVIDUAL DOG!
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