Drives Up, Drives Down. - Page 1

Okay, here's a question for everyone.

You have a well bred, working line puppy who is 6 months old.  The drive to track is really, really intense, this puppy concentrates and is a thinker like nobodies business but interest in the ball or food drive is nill.

Do you worry about the lack of interest in the ball/food drive and work on trying to build it, even if the dog seems more interested in having his nose to the ground working scent or do you say to yourself...

"Self!  6 month old puppy, they go through stages, don't push it."

Annnnd ... go!

What do you want to accomplish with the pup? If all you want to do is track, it might not be too much of an issue, at least for the moment. But my opinion is that if you want to do SchH with the pup or some multi-phase sport, you do, in fact, need to find a way to build drive. Many dogs have it and it is the problem for the handler in that they do not know how to bring it out. As well, without food drive, tracking most certainly will be more difficult to teach once the dog decides perhaps there are other things to do than track. I don't know what your skill or experience level is, but I want all the tools I can find and one important aspect of tools is knowing how to build drive, one way, or another. 

Personally, I believe all dogs will work for food, if they are hungry enough. Most people starting out feed their dog too much anyway and it is simply not driven to work for food. I want to have at least one tool. Better two, and have the pup also like a tug or a ball.....but sometimes when pups are not played with in the correct manner early on, they seem to loose the desire to play with a toy or ball or tug. However, in my experience, most dogs can be brought back and will learn to want a tug. Having more tools in your bag is better than none. Can one be successful without all this? Sure, but it is much, much more difficult I think.

Good luck.

This one:

"Self! 6 month old puppy, they go through stages, don't push it."

I'd be thrilled with the "really, really intense" tracking drive and get with that while the gettin's good.  And yes, work on building the ball/food drive.  I had a dog that didn't have much of those at a young age, but boy, he sure does now.

FHtracker,
When raising a puppy I make them crazy for their ball and create high drive for the toy from the beginning.  If necessary, even with an older dog I will "teach" them that being with me and playing with the ball is the greatest thing in the world.  I also get them very interested and focused on tracking, but that is completely separate from the ball drive.  

As pups all of my dogs will work for food and have a great desire to track.  However, as they get older they will spit out hot dogs to get their ball and the food does not motivate as well. 

Do you worry about the lack of interest in the ball/food drive and work on trying to build it, even if the dog seems more interested in having his nose to the ground working scent or do you say to yourself...

Self! 6 month old puppy, they go through stages, don't push it."


If I am out to do obedience or imprinting with my puppy and he shows more interest in the ground than he does in me, then I have a problem.   I spend a lot of time with a puppy teaching focus and playing.  I make the sessions short and very intense and exciting for the pup.  A 6 month old puppy has a very short attention span, maybe you can get a few minutes.  I make those minutes fun and exciting for the pup.  I am very enthusiastic and the pup gets tons of praise.  Once the attention span begins to diminish I end on a high note and put the dog away wanting more.  The whole 3 minute session may be teaching the dog to play with the ball and praising when he is excited and chases it enthusiastically.  I will put the dog away and let it rest and take it out later and do something different, perhaps some obedience with food and end with the toy. 

My biggest problem is being able to take my pups or dogs for a walk and getting them to stop focusing on me when we are not working.  The dogs know that gets them the toy and will constantly push for it. 

If you are out with your puppy and can have his attention for 3-4 minutes you are doing well.  I don't think you can expect much more from a 6 month old puppy.  Perhaps you are just working too long?   It's difficult for me but I try to be more exciting than whatever else is around my dogs.  It's one the one time that I can get someone's full attention and they actually appreciate it.  
 


FWIW,

Jim

If you are interested in tracking foremost and your dog shows this much natural desire and ability I would not worry about ball drive, this drive, or that drive.
When you talk about food drive I don't understand.   
My dogs eat well, not picky, if I use meat or cheese, or anything else as a reward or enticement to train or track it has nothing to do with food or whatever drive you want to call it.
Withholding food before training is fine, starving an animal does nothing but make the animal weaker and more distracted.

My dogs would climb a ladder for a cheese puff, messy things but they love em.

They go through stages,
don't push it,
but work at finding things that help improve certain drives at a pace that suits the dog.
Don't worry about the small stuff.


Moons.

I pose a question for all whom commented-

I work with a company whose only goal in life if scent work. area searches and trailing.

Now we have to hounds. Neither of which have and prey drive channeled into a ball or tug and arent very interested in food (without skipping a meal or two). Both of which are excellent trailers.

So here is my question- How do you motivate these style dogs?

Both are just so thrill to get the vest on and hunt. However they have required no more a simple that a boy.



Im in agreeance with jim on developing- 100% and Thats how I would process the info at hand--------however because of watching these hounds work im torn on the particular question.

I also am curious to if this pup is tracking specific laid tracks or is just a nose down all the time hunting whatever?

Yoshy,

Tracks specifically laid tracks, very intent and you can hear his nose working so it's not just a case of 'oh his head is down, he's tracking'.  He's very intent when tracking, tail wagging, slow and methodical, working out the idea that 'disturbed terrain'=kibble.

When trying to work him on a ball, he's tail is flat and he's just not interested.

Yeah,
I'm curious to know what is being tracked also, more details.

And my comment was solely to do with training a dog to track, nothing else.

I get more than just a couple of minutes of paying attention with a more laid back approach from my dog now as well as when she was young.
I can take her out into the forest off leash with no distractions with endless things to try to track just as a game, the reward is finding what we are looking for, then a reward or praise.  Sometimes it's catch of the day.   But it's always low key fun and not work in the beginning. 

It isn't Shutzhund style, although I've tried that way. 

Yoshy asked how do you motivate these kinds of dogs.

Patience, making it fun, stick to it until you've reached the end, reward.
Start of short and easy, gradually make it longer and more complicated, reward.
Interesting tracks that peak the dogs interest at first, them move on to boring things.
If the dog can track, it can be taught to track anything in my opinion.  And the reward at the end of the track must in itself be motivating.

I've seen dogs do it for a ball,  I've seen them do it for a food treat, Coon dogs get to tear up a live Coon.
Some get a piece of the game they tracked.

You did say hounds, its the hunt, the prey, the reward.

Moons.

There you are,
well are you only wanting to track or more?

BTW,
my dog works for praise although I do use treats sometimes.
She doesn't give a shit about a ball.


Hell I add this,
It's in their blood, or it's not.
You can teach a dog to follow a laid track, a routine, but thats not tracking in my opinion.

Moons.