How Wrong Is This??????? - Page 1

http://www.gsdstud.com/   Look at the video of the "Courage Test". 

I have to say something, I can stand by no longer.  WTF???  Why is it that people who basically have NO training knowledge feel the need to publicly broadcast crap like this?  That video is wrong in so many ways I don't know where to begin.  First off, these guys are advertising a "Stud" dog with no titles.  In my breed, that's not that big a problem, the body of the dog's work is usually enough to go by.  In this case, "body of what work???"  If you're going to call it a courage test then do a courage test.  Do you know what a courage test looks like?  These days it is called the "Long Bite" and not the "Courage Test" so, do some research and learn what a courage test used to look like.  Try not trying to activate that crapper with frontal posture and whip cracking 10 feet in front of his face.  And, since you basically made it into an escape bite, run the freak away.  My broke old tired ass with 5 knee surgeries and a metal hip could have outrun that critter.  A gentle little backup bending over and placing a soft arm into that weak mouth isn't much of a threat or "Test of Courage".

I am so sick of amateurs chirping about how their dogs have "over the top" drives and unbelievable courage.  I am in the process of trying to help a couple who basically were taken by a provider of executive security dogs.  Not only doesn't this dog have the obedience that was promised, but it would not protect this family to even save his own life.  It's an insult to the dog training profession.  "This bra doesn't fit and I'm not going to wear it anymore!!!!"  Every day I see ads posted for Malinois that are being trained and evaluated by cops who are trying to make some side money by providing "trained" single and dual purpose canines.  IN 99% OF THE CASES, WORKING K9'S WERE TRAINED BY PROFESSIONALS AND SOLD TO A LE AGENCY AND YOU JUST PICKED UP THE LEASH AND TOOK IT DOWNHILL FROM THERE.  Advertising litters out of "working K9's" is a load of crap.  As many of us know, most canines are washed out sport dogs and the AKC will not allow a dog that is registered to a department to be bred.  So what gives, your working K9's are your personal dogs?  Departments won't let a dog belong to a handler because of the liability.  Hence you are selling puppies with no papers and hiding the fact that you bred the parents from your department because you'd probably get fired.  If you are going to advertise the parents as "working K9's" why not advertise what department?  And how many finds/apprehensions are to their credit?  Why?  Because you're a fraud and you can't.

I know there's one more point I wanted to make, but I feel I want to fall on a sharp object and i can't remember what it was.

Feel better getting that off your chest?  Why don't you tell us how you really feel? 

Actually, I agree about the courage test video.  But for $15 you can buy a DVD with videos of the whole years training.  I bet that would keep you busy for quite some time. 

I just wish you were close by so you could come over and straighten out our Pd's K9's.  If we're getting things off our chest, I hate it when someone lumps all K9 handlers in together and all K9 units together.  By the way Phil, not all working K9's are washed out sport dogs these days. 

JMO FWIW,

Jim

Of course it's wrong Phil, but people get taken every day on buying animals that aren't what they were presented as.

The best courage test I ever saw was of a Dobermann Korung test in Europe. It's on amateur video, but I wish I could get it converted.

Did these folks you are helping have good knowledge of what they were getting. I mean, had they been in contact with reputable people and still got burned?

I agree if they are advertised from working k-9's, the stats should be given.

I didn't know the AKC won't allow dogs registered by a Police Dept to be bred. Why is that?

I dont see anything wrong with that dog. I think you are just jealous. The helper seems like he knows what hes doing.

Phil, they have a really fancy website (better than the one I don't have, that's for sure) and they have really fancy music on the vids. What more could you want?

One of my puppy buyers was telling me that a friend of hers got jealous because my friend was getting a new puppy, so she went out and got one for FOUR TIMES AS MUCH MONEY! Must be four times better of a dog!!! Made me feel inadequate for a minute, I'll tell ya.

Shadylady, where is that myth about not breeding police dogs coming from? Second time I've heard it today. My girl's father and grandfather were both working police dogs. 

Extremebunchofdogs, whatever that name is, my helper has never run all the way over to the dog, slapped himself on the scratch pants with the stick, got the dog to react, and then run away! A normal helper is way the hell across the field and the dog doesn't run AFTER him, they run TOWARDS each other.

I don't see anything wrong with those dogs. They look nice and healthy, good proportions, gorgeous color. The males look like males. For show dogs, they're not bad working. Limonite has a good, deep bite and good grip. He's not an extreme type dog, but he does the job.
I do think the video is sort of a crackup, though.. that stupid reggae cop song, again, and the decoy is not impressive. But, how easy is it to find good decoys? You take what you can get, if you are lucky enough to find someone competent to help you work dogs. Obviously the dog knows the decoy very well and this is a game to him. I'm not seeing any defense or real man drive to speak of. But, isn't this how most dogs are trained, today? I still don't agree with the sleeve carrying thing. Call me "old school". Nor will a real tracking search dog have his nose glued to the ground. People don't usually just drop articles right on the path they are walking.. especially criminals... they toss them in bushes, usually as far away as they can.  Or, in canals and ditches, on rooftops, in dumpsters, etc. Schutzhund is just a sport, little more, these days. This dog is just doing sport on a fairly low level. But, that's all the average person can handle, so what he heck? You hope that the average GSD never really has to bite anyone. Usually their presence is enough to deter.
And, this guy is not a policeman.. He's a painter.
I do agree that there are a lot of ethical issues with police selling dogs to the public. Retired police should be free to do whatever they want, but active police should not be involved in this business, IMO. Best reason for not breeding active working K9s should be simply that, to prevent ethical problems and conflict of interest.
You know.. This is the kind of a business that a LOT of people want to get into, and have. There is not enough to go around for everyone to make it. I think this is the source of a lot of jealousy, and it really is not helpful or constructive, overall.
"The only thing two dog trainers can agree on is what the third trainer is doing wrong". You can replace trainer with "breeder", as well..

Such a pity that they had to use such a good song to such a lame performance.... couldn't even finish watching it...

VomMarischal, I don't know where it comes from. I'd like to know. Phil brought it up and I was asking why he said:

"Advertising litters out of "working K9's" is a load of crap. As many of us know, most canines are washed out sport dogs and the AKC will not allow a dog that is registered to a department to be bred. So what gives, your working K9's are your personal dogs? Departments won't let a dog belong to a handler because of the liability."

There's a K9 right down the road from us that we donated fully trained, dual purpose apprehension and explosives that DOES belong to his handler. Not the PD and the PD has absolutely no problems with it. That was the stipulation that we put on the donation, that the dog belong to his handler and not the PD.

Not only that, but I have 2 in TX that are owned by their handler and the PDs have no problems with that either. So this itself is misinformation that K9s can not be owned by their handlers.

Melissa