DDR dogs - Page 1

 HELLO,

From the post earlier DDR Dogs and sport. It seems that people are not aware

that your DDR dogs come from west bloodlines . Before the divide of east Germany

from the west Germany was One country. ALot of you foundation dogs where west bloodlines

And the east German gov. breed of them to produce what they wanted or needed for working dogs.

The problem is not lack of drive it is the training! DDR dogs to me should not be trained in PLAY/PREY

THEIR DRIVES NEED TO BE CHANNELED FROM PREY TO DEFENSE OR DEFENSE TO PREY

depending on what drive their are stronger in. Prey + defense = FIGHT DRIVE Let me know what you think??

WETZLER 

I've never seen one actually SUCCEED in my neck of the woods. Not going to say anything that will hurt anyone's feelings, but I just don't care for a dog with "special needs." I don't want to beg a dog to bite or bark. To me it means that everything the dog has is learned, not genetic, and therefore that dog shouldn't be bred. That's just my opinion, and I am truly sorry if it's a rude one. 

Edit to add: Wetzler, it seems to me that East Germany bred for different things while the wall was up, evidenced by the fact that the two types don't even look alike. DDR dogs may not have been bred for the drive and working ability of their ancestors.

I have to laugh on here people saying oh they mature late or they didn't have prey drive. BS. I had DDR dogs back then as did many people here that could compare to Malinois in drives. They also matured no differently than others. I think maybe now due to the limited gene pool there may be issues. One thing I learned from Wolfgang was that those old DR breeders knew which lines to breed and cross with and what not to do. Sure everyone liked the huge heads and bone but the grips oh the grips those suckers would bite so damn hard and so full like Belgium ring dogs. Talk to someone who had some of these great dogs back in the EARLY 90s. I promise you they where balanced dogs with tons of fight drive and enough prey drive that at times you thought you had a malinois on the end of the lead.

2 to 3 years before the wall came down we got so many great dogs that are now lost forever. Tell Jim Balleinger that won the DPO championships so many times back then that his  dogs didn't  have prey drive...
People today just don't know they only believe what they read on here. There where many of these great dogs sold to S Africa  at the time the wall came down as well as to Australia. I am not sure if there is any in Africa but in Australia there is frozen seamen from these dogs. They realized what they had and where going to loose and tried to preserve some of the gene pool.

I was going to stay out of this one but couldn't resist.

I'm sorry that your opinions are so low on ddr dogs Vom. I hope your opinions haven't been formulated off a handful of bad eggs.As it couldn't be farther from the truth.

"Old style" DDR/Czech( Bred from the same pools) Do not lack in drive as a lineage. If they did they would not have served the military/police of at least a dozen countries for 60+ years.

It seems everyone bases drive off of play/prey these days. Everyone want to see that rocket flying dog on the long bite in schh. Or the speed demon while working through the whole protection phase. Everyone wants extreme prey. Well what have we all said before. breeding for extremes is never a good idea.

I personally will take a balanced ddr/czech line over west German lines any day. For this reason. TYPICALLY they are a sound dogs with great balance in drives. They should be close to equal in prey - defense.Keep in mind the bar can be low, medium, or high. I personally like pushing the top of medium but balanced and equal drives.

The ddr/czech dogs have also been labeled "raw" or "hard" dogs. I prefer a harder dog for many reasons as well. You can see this in Jenni, Jim, and my post many places on this forum.


KEEP IN MIND THIS IS ALL STEREOTYPING> " DOGS SHOULD BE SOUGHT OUT ON A DOG BY DOG BASIS". Both sides have cull dogs, insufficient breeding's and breeders, etc..........

My opinions are based on the functionality I want out of my dog. I want an unwaivering balanced dog whom can not be suppressed, that is social, and has the desire to work in all facets and I choose DDR/Czech dogs!!!!

Yoshy, I think my opinions HAVE come from a few weak dogs. I tend to keep my opinions based on dogs I've actually SEEN rather than heard of....

Edit: I prefer a hard or raw dog too (much more forgiving of errors). I just haven't actually seen one from DDR lines in person, that's all. Czech, yes.

Another edit: Wrestleman, you keep saying BACK THEN...I'm referring to NOW. I think DDR lines are very watered down now. They may have come from good stock, but breeding for coat color and stockiness is a poor goal when it's at the expense of working ability.

Well I own DDR/Czech dogs and one west german/czech, handled a few and have personally seen and decoyed for some great DDR/Czech dogs as well. As well as my next female will be from DDR/Czech lineage and i will continue to pull stock from those lines. So Im hoping you werent implying that I hadnt put eyes on these dogs and you speaking of yourself there.

I can respect difference in opinion and if that is yours than I have no issues with that. But If we all just judged from a few bad eggs we would not be into GSD's period as every line/country has some.

No, I'm ONLY talking about myself, no snarky implications at all.

I can only judge from what I've seen, not what I've heard about on the grapevine. Glad to hear your dogs are great, but I'd like to see any dog work before I shift my opinion based on it. I'm HAPPY to hear that your dogs are great, but are you sure it's BECAUSE of the DDR and not IN SPITE OF IT? You have other bloodlines tossed in; I'm talking about pure DDR, or anyhow as pure as it can get in the US. 

VomMarischal....I guess it depends on what YOU deem "success." If a podium is success, then stick w/the tried and true. If success means more, then stick with what you personally prioritize in terms of temperament. BUT- don't evaluate and criticize others for not being "successful" when in fact, they just may have very different goals. What some deem successful, I'd put out of its misery for being useless and unbalanced and crumbling under pressure. <shrug>  To each his own.

Beg a dog to bark or bite? What dogs have you seen?!  Hmmm, I always thought the problem was too strong in "defense", too much fight, too sharp, etc. etc. Decoys today want a dog to just hang on a sleeve and go to a happy place instead of actually fighting them and making eye contact, thinking about strategies, etc. I want a thinking dog, whether he/she loses points or not. I want the dog who makes eye contact and wants to hurt the decoy- not the dog with the calm full grip but a blank look in his eyes who's been genetically imprinted against cognitive thought and reasoning in favor of making him easier to train by your average moron who  has a hard time outsmarting a good dog. That was a hell of a run on sentence, wasn't it? LOL

Sorry Jenni, I never criticized anyone. Just talking about my own observations. And yes...BEGGING a dog to bite or bark, to no avail, I might add. I agree with your view of what a dog should be....however, as I stated earlier, I haven't seen it in my neck of the woods from DDR dogs. Nowhere did I say it didn't exist or isn't possible. 

PS. By succeed, I meant progress and learn.