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by Jenni78 on 07 January 2010 - 20:01
Something someone asked me about OFA and their dog's xrays got me thinking about this. Look at this xray and give opinions on the hips, and look carefully at the whole image- not just the sockets- and see what you think. Then, I'll explain what OFA said and the other interesting part of this.


by Nans gsd on 07 January 2010 - 20:01
by Nans gsd on 07 January 2010 - 20:01
Sorry I hit the wrong button.
OK: On the right side which is probably the left hip appears to be some remodeling and somewhat loose, not much femur head in the socket; the left side looks OK, could have more femur head in the socket though, I would guess possibly a fair from OFA, maybe mildely dysplastic.
If he/she were mine I would like to see both sockets deeper and a tighter fit in the socket.
OK: On the right side which is probably the left hip appears to be some remodeling and somewhat loose, not much femur head in the socket; the left side looks OK, could have more femur head in the socket though, I would guess possibly a fair from OFA, maybe mildely dysplastic.
If he/she were mine I would like to see both sockets deeper and a tighter fit in the socket.

by Krazy Bout K9s on 07 January 2010 - 20:01
How about no elbow joints showing and not very straight???
by B.Andersen on 07 January 2010 - 22:01
Well right now i will say the knees should be rotated in for OFA if not that will hurt your rating as the head is showing where the ligaments attatch. If I had to guess that this is a big heavy boned dog DDR or Czech. They will say the femurs are short and thickened but this the hip conformation of many old east blood dogs. I do not think this but I guess that they will say unilateral mild? I see good hips

by Prager on 07 January 2010 - 23:01
The L leg (on your Right) is very twisted outwards. That make the hip look worse. IT WOULD BE MORE OBVIOUS IF THE KNEE CAPS WOULD SHOW.MORGAN LINES are very obvious. the rest is hard to tell since the thickening of the necks may be due to outward twist of the knee caps.
Prager Hans
http:www.alpinek9.com
Prager Hans
http:www.alpinek9.com
by outridinsolo on 07 January 2010 - 23:01
Positioning looks pretty bad to me. The Right socket looks better than the left but is that because of the angle of the right leg is
pulled out, possibly pushing more of the head into the socket? Left looks a bit shallow...
Very interested in hearing what OFA said. Please tell us!
pulled out, possibly pushing more of the head into the socket? Left looks a bit shallow...
Very interested in hearing what OFA said. Please tell us!

by Pharaoh on 07 January 2010 - 23:01
Don't send it in to OFA if you haven't already done so.
Get a better xray.
Michele
Get a better xray.
Michele

by LAVK-9 on 08 January 2010 - 00:01
As a vet tech....this shot shouldn't be sent to OFA.If it is the shot that the vet uses to go to OFA I would wonder about the vet and if they have ever taken x rays for OFA. This pic wouldn't be alowd out the door where I worked. For 1 the knee caps aren't in the shot.Too much of the abdomen is in the pic...they don't need to see that nor do they care.2nd the placing of the tag is wrong as well. Not a good picture to go on.

by Jenni78 on 08 January 2010 - 01:01
Interesting replies...keep 'em coming.
Here's a bit of the story:
This is a 2 yr old male GSD-very large and extremely heavy boned (B. Andersen is correct- DDR and a bit of Czech). This dog was taken to the vet very shortly after these xrays were taken for a suspected knee injury. To be on the cautious side, this xray was taken to the specialist to get a second opinion on the hips as well, because the owner wanted to make sure it was a knee and not a hip.
I was hoping someone would see the inflammation. The specialist said the hips look fine, the positioning was bad, and the dog has PANO! Also, he noted muscle atrophy and the resulting subluxation. Yes, the left hip is a tad subluxated, although the positioning isn't helping. He felt that it was not a case of genetic HD at all, but rather a temporary condition due to the Pano, which he said had been there for quite some time; the dog has a very very high pain threshold.
My point in posting this is that OFA, IMO, should've sent this xray back and said to redo when the dog is healthy and the Pano is gone. This one doesn't show the Pano as clearly as another one does, but it's there nonetheless. Since the dog was over 2, the dog didn't certify and was rated good/normal in the right hip and mildly dysplastic in the left on the form that was returned- "unilateral pathology- mildly dysplastic."
My issue is that people who are not as subjective as many of us, and who don't know any better, don't get the benefit of the whole story w/submissions to OFA. OFA is the be all, end all, and IMO, it should be a useful tool, but it could be improved. I can't believe that not one of the radiologists reading this saw what the 2 vets saw- OF COURSE THE DOG HAS SUBLUXATION IF HE HAS SEVERE MUSCLE ATROPHY FROM PANO/INJURY ON THE LEFT. A dog who is limping and favoring a leg is going to lose muscle tone in that leg fairly quickly. Not to mention any of the other issues w/the film that you guys pointed out.
Not saying I would breed the dog (not saying I necessarily wouldn't, either), but how many of you think this dog truly, genetically, has bad hips, and how many think this dog got a bit of an unfair rating due to the pano? It's easy to make good hips look bad, but it's pretty hard to make bad hips look good, IME, and I really don't think this dog is genetically dysplastic, if he's dysplastic at all. Here is an interesting article that makes quite a bit of sense. www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html
I find it frustrating that although 2 ortho specialists pointed out reasons and flaws in the very xray that OFA read, the rating is what "stuck" and the dog, who is a really really nice dog, was never re-done and never bred. He's too damn old now.
Here's a bit of the story:
This is a 2 yr old male GSD-very large and extremely heavy boned (B. Andersen is correct- DDR and a bit of Czech). This dog was taken to the vet very shortly after these xrays were taken for a suspected knee injury. To be on the cautious side, this xray was taken to the specialist to get a second opinion on the hips as well, because the owner wanted to make sure it was a knee and not a hip.
I was hoping someone would see the inflammation. The specialist said the hips look fine, the positioning was bad, and the dog has PANO! Also, he noted muscle atrophy and the resulting subluxation. Yes, the left hip is a tad subluxated, although the positioning isn't helping. He felt that it was not a case of genetic HD at all, but rather a temporary condition due to the Pano, which he said had been there for quite some time; the dog has a very very high pain threshold.
My point in posting this is that OFA, IMO, should've sent this xray back and said to redo when the dog is healthy and the Pano is gone. This one doesn't show the Pano as clearly as another one does, but it's there nonetheless. Since the dog was over 2, the dog didn't certify and was rated good/normal in the right hip and mildly dysplastic in the left on the form that was returned- "unilateral pathology- mildly dysplastic."
My issue is that people who are not as subjective as many of us, and who don't know any better, don't get the benefit of the whole story w/submissions to OFA. OFA is the be all, end all, and IMO, it should be a useful tool, but it could be improved. I can't believe that not one of the radiologists reading this saw what the 2 vets saw- OF COURSE THE DOG HAS SUBLUXATION IF HE HAS SEVERE MUSCLE ATROPHY FROM PANO/INJURY ON THE LEFT. A dog who is limping and favoring a leg is going to lose muscle tone in that leg fairly quickly. Not to mention any of the other issues w/the film that you guys pointed out.
Not saying I would breed the dog (not saying I necessarily wouldn't, either), but how many of you think this dog truly, genetically, has bad hips, and how many think this dog got a bit of an unfair rating due to the pano? It's easy to make good hips look bad, but it's pretty hard to make bad hips look good, IME, and I really don't think this dog is genetically dysplastic, if he's dysplastic at all. Here is an interesting article that makes quite a bit of sense. www.showdogsupersite.com/hips.html
I find it frustrating that although 2 ortho specialists pointed out reasons and flaws in the very xray that OFA read, the rating is what "stuck" and the dog, who is a really really nice dog, was never re-done and never bred. He's too damn old now.

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