PERSONAL PROTECTION IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA - Page 1

Is there anyone in in the Northern Virginia area who is interested in personal protection work? I'm just curious, i normally work with a friend of mine. It's hard to find a good decoy who understands what a PPD dog should be like.

 Good luck with your search in VA.  

I would like to find someone near St. Louis, MO.

try Armin

 Try Ron Marshall or butch Henderson

Those people mentioned so far are sport people at best.  What do you think a ppd should be like?

Do you really know everything about each of their training?  Armin does a lot more than just sport training, but you may not know that. 

FWIW,

Jim

Yes, I have seen many examples of their training, I have lived in the No VA area for over 30 years.  I have been to Armin's place several times, and  numerous times have talked to people who end up at where I have been training for the last 10 years, unhappy with what they have been getting elsewhere.  PPD's are different from the sport training that is out there now.  Many of these places only know how to train in a pattern, and they don't know how to problem solve.  The level of obedience on a ppd has to be unsurpassed, and that takes not only training, but the proper development of the dog from the very beginning.  The dog should be very balanced between prey and defense, and the trainer should know how to develop the fight drive.  Many of the people and their dogs that have been to these other places have had prey work only, and the obedience has not been proofed under very heavy distraction.  I can only judge by the end product that I have seen personally, and at trials that I have attended.  I am not here to trash Armin, I have met him, he is a good man, very articulate, and willing to train others.  He has treated me well when I have been at one of the trials at his place, and I am sure he has no idea of who I am, that is just the way he is.  My trainer has known Armin for a very long time, and is quite aware of his training and capabilities. 

kgk9,
The OP was asking for help in PPD in Northern Va, if you know of someone that you think is good why not just tell him? 

I'm not in that area, but I have heard good things about Butch Henderson.  I don't know him and have never trained with him, just what I heard.  On the other hand, I do know Armin pretty well.  Armin is a very talented decoy and a very knowledgeable guy.  I have been to his place and it's awesome.  In September I saw Armin at the VPWDA seminar, (Virginia Police Work Dog Association).  He decoyed all week and put some pressure on the police dogs and challenged them well.  This seminar had working K9 teams from across the state there to train.  I decoyed for some military dogs and they were no joke. 

I don't train PSA or Ring, they are are great but just another sport like SchH.  PPD training is just another variation of those sports until the dog actually has to fight a bad guy and defend you and itself, without any equipment present.  Obedience and control work is great.  Suit work, muzzles and hidden sleeves are all great training tools.  Scenario based training is awesome and pushing the dog and testing it's limits is what it's all about.  But at the end of the day the dog knows it's training 99% of the time. It sounds like you are serious about your training and I'm sure you have an excellent well trained dog.   If your training is good (and it sounds that way), more than likely your dog's training will kick in and defend you for real.  Hopefully you will never need that, but you never really know until it happens.  Getting that first real bite out of the way let's the dog know it's not a game anymore it's game time. 

I work a Police K9 and, most of my training time revolves around real world situations with real distractions that even PPD training can't come close to duplicating. Our day is very real and I can assure you our PD's dogs will bite for real with out equipment; that's their job.  So my point is: Armin has some real experience with Police K9's and MWD's. He knows the difference between sport and "real' training as I do.  If you have only been to his place for a SchH trial you wouldn't see this side of his training.  I've seen him do both.  I'm not trying to promote Armin or anyone else, just offering some guidance to the question that was originally asked. 

Please don't take any offense to anything I said, none was intended at all.  I'm rather curious about where you train, I'm always looking for good people to train with in my travels. 

Jim

I have been training with  Ed Nurse for the last 10 years, I was in the AF for 27 years, and am quite aware of what type of dogs the military has and what their training is like.  I would like to continue to talk and get info and tap into your experiences with dog training.  I am always looking for more info on how to improve, that is probably the most important thing I learned from Ed.  He never did cookie cutter training, he is able to change his method(s) to get the same results from good dogs.  If I came off as an know-it-all, I apologize.  I really want to become a good trainer and handler, but I am very  proud of my dog Dolf, I think he is something special.