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by yoshy on 01 April 2010 - 21:04
http://stonesoupdiaries.wordpress.com/2010/03/31/be-sure-to-read-this-when-you-have-a-lot-of-time/
Make sure you have some time to read this and the links within the post. Has some very interesting information on this topic.
Make sure you have some time to read this and the links within the post. Has some very interesting information on this topic.
by Prager on 02 April 2010 - 22:04
NoCurs
I like your philosophy.
As I said I am not even talking about high performance in top competition, I am talking about relationship you have with your dog.
I have just read a forum in Slovak republic. Someone said bluntly there:"... dogs trained with e collars are looking like they love their owner and perform perfectly for them. But they are working because of the fear of regardless how small the shock is and are looking up to the owner for safe haven by performing and are looking at them lovingly. They do that because they do not understand that the electric impulse is coming from the handler."
I agree and personally it bothers me.
In Czech I believe the collars like chocker which can make a 0 diameter loop are illegal. You can use chocker but must be hooked to a dead ring. Pinch is limited slip so I suppose it is legal. E collars are freely for sale there thus I would suppose that they are legal.
However I think that ban should be on improper use and not on the devices. That is the same thing like anti gun laws.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
I like your philosophy.
As I said I am not even talking about high performance in top competition, I am talking about relationship you have with your dog.
I have just read a forum in Slovak republic. Someone said bluntly there:"... dogs trained with e collars are looking like they love their owner and perform perfectly for them. But they are working because of the fear of regardless how small the shock is and are looking up to the owner for safe haven by performing and are looking at them lovingly. They do that because they do not understand that the electric impulse is coming from the handler."
I agree and personally it bothers me.
In Czech I believe the collars like chocker which can make a 0 diameter loop are illegal. You can use chocker but must be hooked to a dead ring. Pinch is limited slip so I suppose it is legal. E collars are freely for sale there thus I would suppose that they are legal.
However I think that ban should be on improper use and not on the devices. That is the same thing like anti gun laws.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Scoutk9GSDs on 02 April 2010 - 23:04
Yes, I agree with that explanation. I think it is hard to develop a good WORKING relationship with a dog using an ecollar for the majority of training. FYI....I do not in any way equate sport with work.
by yoshy on 02 April 2010 - 23:04
Just playing devil's advocate here:-----
Only thing about banning the application in which a device is used:
in how many trainers agree with one another explicity on the use of any device?
I know you have seen many whom misuse many different training devices. How would you regulate that and or apply it? How would you set a standard for the use of any device?
We cant even deal with those whom chain there dogs out back and never see any interaction but some Ol Roy thrown in a bowl and some water.
There was a video of a lady on here not to long ago i wouldnt allow to tough my dogs or anyone elses training with pinch collars. I consider what she was doing to be abuse. completely unfair to the dog, multiple unnecessary corrections, unclear communication and the dogs represented it in there actions of being confused and distressed. but somehow she is making big bucks training. So even though john doe and i agree she is misusing the device- Jane doe agrees with what she is doing. So how do we enforce the law that she misused it?
Or someone dislikes a correction you give one of your dogs and jumps the gun???
We have so many abuse cases a year not do to training that we cant handle how would we expect a back ground check to weed any out either?
Only thing about banning the application in which a device is used:
in how many trainers agree with one another explicity on the use of any device?
I know you have seen many whom misuse many different training devices. How would you regulate that and or apply it? How would you set a standard for the use of any device?
We cant even deal with those whom chain there dogs out back and never see any interaction but some Ol Roy thrown in a bowl and some water.
There was a video of a lady on here not to long ago i wouldnt allow to tough my dogs or anyone elses training with pinch collars. I consider what she was doing to be abuse. completely unfair to the dog, multiple unnecessary corrections, unclear communication and the dogs represented it in there actions of being confused and distressed. but somehow she is making big bucks training. So even though john doe and i agree she is misusing the device- Jane doe agrees with what she is doing. So how do we enforce the law that she misused it?
Or someone dislikes a correction you give one of your dogs and jumps the gun???
We have so many abuse cases a year not do to training that we cant handle how would we expect a back ground check to weed any out either?
by Slamdunc on 03 April 2010 - 05:04
IMHO, to say a dog properly trained with an ecollar will have less of a bond with it's handler or be fearful of it's handler is completely incorrect. Trust me an abusive, poorly skilled handler doesn't need an ecollar to screw up his/her dog.
Jim
Jim
by Prager on 04 April 2010 - 02:04
Jim ,
I do not know if you are reffering to me, but I do not thing that anybody mantioned "bond" here. Or be fearfull of the handler if collar is properly used.
They are not fearfull of the owner, but of the stimulation. The "bond" may be stronger if the collar is on because the dog is looking for a approval from his master which is associated with no stimulus. However I am talking about proper "relationship". Just want to clarify what I am saying.
Happy Easter Jim:)
Hans
I do not know if you are reffering to me, but I do not thing that anybody mantioned "bond" here. Or be fearfull of the handler if collar is properly used.
They are not fearfull of the owner, but of the stimulation. The "bond" may be stronger if the collar is on because the dog is looking for a approval from his master which is associated with no stimulus. However I am talking about proper "relationship". Just want to clarify what I am saying.
Happy Easter Jim:)
Hans
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