shock collars - Page 6

The most important thing in training is to build a relationship with the dog. Clint, it sounds like you are well on the way to doing that. Once that foundation is laid, you can use whatever tools you want to complete the dog's training.

If you don't have that foundation, the dog will never respect you, and the e-collar (or whatever other training aid you're using) becomes a crutch. The dog respects the COLLAR, not the handler. If it's not wearing the collar, it will just blow you off.

Believe me, I've seen it, with e-collars, anti-bark collars and even those ridiculous shake cans!

And why would an 11 week old pup need to hear 'no'?  Well, I for one, don't believe it's necessary to let the pup shred my fingers and pant legs! Teaching him not to bite human flesh CAN be done without ruining his drives for later bitework.

 

Your dog needs to know simple commands. If your dog knows simple commands he/she will listen with the beep(s). Thats another reason I like the TT .. the beep is so important with the E Collar and the TT has the loudest beep. So if your dog doesn't know simple commands, the E Collar is useless for the best it has to offer.

I like how you can tone the beeps for a number of commands on demand. This is how I got my dogs to know exactly what to do with one beep and act in sequence. Awesome I think.

I always find it amazing at how much misinformation there is on this board relating to training.  Some people are completely unable to comprehend that there may be other ways to train a dog than their prehistoric methods.  I'm sure all of the people knocking E collars have either never used them or never used them properly.  I'm sure these same people have never tried clicker training either. 

shocking a dog does not increase drive.  No, shocking doesn't.  But stimulation does, sorry moons you are wrong on how to properly use the collar.  Just as a prong collar or proper leash corrections on a choke can can increase drive when used properly.  But, you have never been exposed to the proper use of an E collar by a skilled trainer.  E collars are not the last resort for severe problems or severe behavior that is also wrong.  They are best suited for training and proofing.

I find the comments that "if your dog has to wear an E collar it's not trained" to be ridiculous.  To use the same reasoning if your dog is so well trained it doesn't need a leash or collar of any kind, ever.  So take your perfectly trained dogs every where without any collars, through towns, cities, walks on highways, etc. 

Train your pets the way you want, use what works for you.  Please do it humanely.  You don't need to knock other people who have been successful with methods different than yours that you don't completely understand or lack the proper training or experience with.  When world class competitors use these methods and have amazing results perhaps there is something to them.  In the constant quest to take my training to the next level I am always looking at what works the best and who consistently has the best results and analyzing their methods.   I hope I never become so stuck in my ways that I stop learning new techniques and methods.  I always try to keep an open mind because I know there are many people out there that I can learn from. 

Baby Eagle,
That is awesome with the bell and the hunters. That is a very cool way to handle what could be a potential problem. That is the best and most useful training I've heard of in a long time.  


JMO,

Jim

Michael
 I for one have not ever said  that E Collars are not a useful tool in Dogs They are but as said by someone who knows or learns how to use one
It is no good Jack the Lad in the Street getting one just because he has no control over his Dog and thinking he just has to give his dog  a few Tings  and then expect that dog to conform to what he wants that will not work
 Only as said the Handler needs to be trained how to use the E Collar  first before that handler uses it on his dog, that is for certain, But before any Dog will conform to what you want it to do it has to respect the handler as its boss otherwise what ever collar you use will only bring on conflict and even if a Dog summits in the end it will not be a happy dog or will it ever work for that handler the way it is expected to do
But for Puppies a big NO on the use of an E Collar or Pinch Collar that is certainly not needed and if a handler cannot stop a Pup from Biting or nipping them they they need training themselves as how to handle Dogs it is only common sense that you direct the Pups teeth away from you, at a young age they do not know what they are biting they think it play just direct there teeth in another direction they soon begin to understand, simple enough
In my Pup Izzy you will not see a Higher drive Pup than she is yet she is walking to heel no problem she walks slow when i walk slow, she does everything she is asked to do but of course still has a long way to go yet,
Off Work she is a lunatic everything at 150 miles an hour but the Pup has been trained to walk on a leash and slow walk, Sit without telling when i stop and all i have used on her todate is a leather collar,
The time will probably come when i will use a PInch collar on her i expect it will be needed , but that is all i hope i will need to train her in the ScHh Sport nothing else,
But if the time comes and i need another aid then i will think of the E Collar but only if it is needed  I will not use it to speed up training or for any other reason i like to take things along steady with a Pup i am not in line to want a ScHh111 by the time she is 2 years old, If i can get her BH AD and ScHh 1 by two years old i will be very happy indeed and think we will both have done well, then anything is possible after that the following year,
Her Daddy was in the WUSV 2009 at 3 years old finishing in  7th Place but then his handler is an exceptional one to say the least, and i am certainly not in his class and no where near it,
Steve1  

The Jan./Feb. issue of the USA Schutzhund magazine has an article on e-collars.  It's a Q&A by Claudia Romard with Michael Ellis.

Claudia Romard...now there's a Schtuzhund trainer I REALLY respect!  

I'd love to see that article!

Interusting I always love reading people's diff. opinions... thanks everyone....

Duck,
I am wrong on how to properly use a shock collar?

I don't remember explaining any techniques involving the use of a shock collar.
I said they do not increase drive.


I'd rather feel that little tingle than a tug on a choke chain?
Put it to the test michael 49, I bet you'd change your mind after the fourth or fifth jolt.

No argument that they are useful in the right hands, but it's obvious from being here on the message board for my time that the right hands are far and few between.

9 of 10 applies.


Moons.

I used an e-collar for a very short period of time on some dogs I trained a few years ago to give it a try. The results were not to my satisfactory. They did all the exercises, no prob, but how they did it, i did not like it at all, their state of mind had changed significantly so I skipped that idea very quickly. I get my results without it and my dogs and the dogs I train for other people are happy and that makes me happy

All the best
Ulf

www.k9ulf.com

That sounds to me like the collar was set too high.  If it "changed their state of mind"?  Definitely too high of a shock and you are certainly right to not use an e-collar.  They're definitely not for everybody.