I need your opinion on this.... - Page 4

VOS,
Lucky for us that most bad guys just want to get away.  It is getting much more serious and the amount of assault rifles we have been getting lately is unreal.  Teenagers with AK's, sawed off shotguns and M-4's it's crazy.   I agree with your posts.

Hodie,
You know that Bernhard is one of my favorites.  He has been to my home twice and I ahve learned a lot from him.  Actually, my K9 unit owes him a big thanks.  He changed a lot of our training.  He is a great guy, lots of fun and a phenomenal handler and trainer.  You have reminded me that I need to contact him for a seminar for next year.  We also discussed his dog Fels, oh boy.  What a serious dog.  He has retired Fels and now owns him. 

Thanks and Happy Holidays,

Jim  

 Slamdunc,

Yes, it is exactly of Fels that we talked about. At that time he had just been "given" Fels. Do you know if he still has him? I know he was planning on using him as a stud......

If you reach him, say hello for me. I too must write him to wish him a Merry Christmas. He is one of my favorite people on earth.

Snai:

                  Yes most defenitly it should be in the routine as should the attack on the handler out of the blind in the Sch1and the vertical wall in the obedience and gun shots back in the Bh .All these changes were brought about because there is a certin group of dogs that could never title if they stayed in but that is another OLD conversation.

As I,ve said before they should leave the routine just like it is and call it a sport title and then have a Sch title that really tests the dogs genetics,training and heart.

but not trying to change the subject again, yes it should be in there.

 Jim,

I understand you wanting your dog to bark and give the public the message to back off, but I have to tell you that when you describe him in the real life scenarios he reminds me of Clint Eastwood in the movie, "Sudden Impact" when Harry quietly stands his ground and says, "Go ahead, make my day!" 

Reference required: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Go_ahead,_make_my_day

I agree that those things should be brought back in trials, Bob. 

It's my understanding the reason the gun shots were taken out of the BH is because in Germany the BH really is used by many groups, and not limited to dogs entering schutzhund.  I have heard, as I am sure you have, the BH may be gone from schutzhund and they will just do it like they used to, add back in the on leash portion in the schH1. 

The performance evaluation portion of the breed survey still does include the attack out of the blind, interestingly enough.

Sue:

                 Have you ever seen it ? it is truly a joke helpers running out slowly with the sleeve high playing little prey games to make them come to the sleeve it,s a joke.

Yes, of course it feels worse after he fact the adrenaline left etc... bt a real bite is apretty much felt instantly.

My damn dog who is only 20 monthsold curently before he learned better targeting for the tug of war would sometimes miss and go for my knuckles...

Of course, as we lock eyes in an instant and I yello NO! he'd go Oh shit, slinker back and act all sheepishly for a second. I wouldn't even classify that as a bite still hurts like a dropped hammer.

Once, what was it, maybe last spring, when he was just a stupid 1 year old puppy he missed the ball on the rope - asshole always went for the rope, so he can tug it with me, he tagged me underside of the arm, right underneath the elbow and before the wrist. It wasn't even a serious bite,  more of like a miss and I got this instead of air, it wasn't really allthat painful now that I recall it, but my whole arm went numb. He must have hit a nerve center or something, weirdest of feelings, like my arm was amputated for a few seconds.

So, in a nutshell, if a real powerful, serious dog goes fora "live" bite and means business, one would either have to be: really, really fucking tough with high tolerance for pain - some people are like that, mentally challenged, have some really weird thrill issues or high on drugs to even think of engaging the dog and asking for more.

Anyway, a nice hypothetical thread that offers valuable info and except slamdunc comments, purely hypothetical, but nevertheless good thread.

Sorry guys I could not get back to you my pc at home sucks I got some kind of virus that seem not able to get ride off and my internet pages don't load up any more. But I am at work now so I can go through some of the great responds.

First Jim:
"I worked those dogs with no equipment and eventually they got a bite on a sleeve, only after they proved they wanted to bite me and not the equipment. They had to make me believe they wanted me and not the sleeve or anything else. The sleeve was just a stress relief for the dog. I can honestly say given the choice of biting the sleeve or biting me they all would have bit me and badly. I know, because I gave them the choice."

This is exactly the way I work my dog, I get the helper to presure her with no equipment on than once she is worked up to the level that is satisfying to me I get my helper to run houndred yard ahead and than he will stand there once I send her and 10 to 15 feet before she gets to him he runs straight at her she been donig great so far especially since she is only I think 18 months, the helper always say she hits like fricking truck, and once thing I like she dose not slow down, some people at the club laugh that she is like Mali lol. I think she can be chased off the field with a strong helper, I know some of the issues that she has. When talking with my friend who is the helper as well decoy for local K9 units he did said to me that he belives that the dog is real and will be hard to chase off the field, he actually said that this dog is out there to fight you. Well I still want to test this theory, as I see her little bit different than he dose (after all I know her since puppy), so we transfering her to hidden sleeves and I want to see how she dose
and if anny issues will come out. Too bad I don't know any one creazy enough to take a real bite from her ;) lol.

Jim do you think your dog would do good in SCH now after so many real bites? 

Now how are you going to fix bark and hold with your dog? I am running into similar issue the dog is just too confident that I have the hardest time getting her to do bark and hold. I had number trainers helpers trying to help me with the problem but so far it's just hard to get her to do it. And we been not able to get her to do it consistently.

Yes most defenitly it should be in the routine as should the attack on the handler out of the blind in the Sch1and the vertical wall in the obedience and gun shots back in the Bh


Bob and this is my issue with SCH, it should be a real test, of the dog true abilities, rather than the water down version that we see today. But I guess $ is more important.