The other side of the coin - Page 3

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by Bob McKown on 06 January 2010 - 12:01

Steve:
 
                   Are they doing any more breeding with Izzy,s mother?

steve1

by steve1 on 06 January 2010 - 17:01

Bob
She has at the moment a Litter of 7 Pups same Father as IZZY the breeder was so impressed with the Izzy litter he did it again if anyone gets a Pup like mine then they better be pretty fit for the Pup will find out any weakness in the owner 
My God Izzy is a wild one I have never seen a Pup like her drive she is a crazy Pup over a Ball on a rope or anything else she can get hold of,
I defy anyone to put a pair of gloves on there hands if she is near them, she will have them off and gone before you get one glove on one hand
 I will be glad to get back to training to take the steam out of her but at the moment we are Iced up. Must send you a Mail tonight Bob on the National
Steve1

by Sheesh on 07 January 2010 - 12:01

IMO the importance of the bitch cannot be overstated. I have a friend who has concentrated on her mother line(showline) and is consistently producing outstanding pups. Of course her knowledge and experience of lines is unbelievable as well. She has been having remarkable success with the litters from her own line, as opposed to bitches from other lines. The proof is in the pup! Theresa

steve1

by steve1 on 07 January 2010 - 14:01

It is the same with Top Class Long Distance racing pigeons the Producing female is Gold in my eyes for without them you will go downhill in the 1980's Two very wealthy Top Belgian Fanciers could not understand why there National Performances were going backwards They doted on Males and raced only Males I said to both of them You are neglecting the Females in your family and it shows it by the quality  you need to test severely the Females to the long distance Barcelona and selection must be severe,
I went away from there lofts that day thinking i was wasting my breath telling two top fanciers and they would not listen to an Englesman as we are called over here
 i was in a tour party from England for a weeks tour around Belgium lofts
But i thought wrongly  around 14 years later i met those two Fanciers again and both thanked me for the  sound advice i gave them. They did what i said and both are back at the Top and both have won a National since that time and one of them is still going well today the other has finished through old age
So no matter how good you are we can always learn, and i still learn even after 60 years in the sport and it is the same with Dogs a Proven Producer Female is worth her weight in Gold They are the ones who lay the Golden Pup so to speak I am not saying the male is not important as the female in some respects but if i had to choose it would be the Golden Female then i can keep the line going on for decades and for my way of thinking is this
There are a lot of really good Males to choose from to use as a Stud, But there are far less outstanding females and if you own one of those outstanding females then the owners of a top Stud will almost beg you to use there male in the reproducing for they will benifit greatly from doing so, Performance is SILVER, Breeding Is GOLD 
And Folk i think i have such a Female now in my hands,
The Pup just Oozes Class and she knows she is good
Steve1

K9Sport

by K9Sport on 07 January 2010 - 14:01

GREAT POINTS BOB!

I recently bred my bitch for the first time,  I'm not a "breeder" and have never bred a bitch before.  Before I bred her I did OFA hips, elbows, and DNA test for DM.  I also wouldn't think to breed her before she had a SchH3.  I believe that the bitch is the larger part of the breeding equation.  They bring half the genetic and all of the initial imprinting, that's pretty compelling IMO.  My bitch was multiple times Sch 3, has her FH and has competed at multiple national championships.  She received a 95 in protection at the 2008 GSD National Championship.  She had to prove to me that she was worthy of being bred before I would even consider it.
Here is her pedigree/photo:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/477562.html

(I don't know how to imbed photos here... sorry)

Laurie Coppola

by Sheesh on 07 January 2010 - 16:01

I love hearing Steve1 talk about his Izzy, it always makes me smile to read. :-) Theresa

Prager

by Prager on 08 January 2010 - 00:01


 FACT:
 Both male and female give generally speaking  50% of their genes to the progeny.
BUT:
Off course you need genetically strong female, but one of the reasons for promoting the males more  is that if you breed you strive for  genetically dominant improver studs.
REASON : 
Stud has more influence positively and negatively then female, not on the genetics of the  litter per se, but on
   the genetic pool. Stud will breed many females and it is important that stud is genetic improver. Thus the influence of the female on genetic pool is lesser.
EXAMPLE:
If stud as a dominant improver will breed lesser female then he will improve her progeny. If he breeds excellent female so the better.
CONCLUSION: 
But this is the reason why genetically dominant improver studs are more promoted and yes important for the genetic pool of the breed.
 Prager Hans 
HTTP://www.alpinek9.com

Prager

by Prager on 08 January 2010 - 00:01

 I would like to add to my statement above  this : Look to the nature. Pack of wolfs has one dominant stud who breeds several lesser or stronger females. Thus he must be geneticly dominant improver of the pack or the pack will die out.,
Prager Hans
 http://www.alpinek9.com

steve1

by steve1 on 08 January 2010 - 13:01

Prager
In all Speces the Male is supposed that the Dominant Partner  but it does not make it the most important one. In Wolves it is the Alpha Female who is as equally important than the Alpha male
But we are not talking about Wolves but German Shepherd Dogs
Of course the Male can produce more young than a Female can thats only logical but it does not make him the most important because of that fact
In most pedigrees the most important one is the Tail G Dam, meaning the G Mother on the Maternal line
 You can have a Good Stud Male and of course we need them and as you say there are more about,
But what i am saying is this I prefer if i can have only the one choice  this is a Producer Female over a Producer Male and you and i have said it there are many less Producer Females around
So by owning such a Female there are plenty of Top Class Males to mate her too I do not need to own a Good Stud Dog the list is numerous of the ones i can use to breed her too
 But i am not talking about financial gain from any of this,  Perhaps you are being in the Breeding business i have never bred two dogs together myself i had the hand in finding the Sire to my present Pup and that is it
Now of course if i am in the business of Breeding Dogs for financial gain then of course i will take a prepotent Stud Dog  for i can gert moe from him as you have said but financial gain is not what i am talking about in Dogs
Steve1

Prager

by Prager on 09 January 2010 - 00:01

I am not talking about financial gain either. Financial gain is based on marketing and not so much on genes of a male vs female . I am talking about genetic pool of the breed. Genetic pool is most influanced by a stud because he can breed many females. I am not saying that female are not important.  I personaly alway breed to strong females.
 Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com





 


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