Czech or West German working line. - Page 1

there are still a number of sl dogs that make fine family & pp dogs.  i would not be too quick 
to write them off.  i have had both wl & sl.  each have different qualities.
pjp

it is about the individual dog, both czech and west bring good, bad and ugly  (and great lookers)

It's not necessarily the bloodlines but more importantly the individual "Dog"...No matter what the bloodlines or breeding...

I would find some breeders with or even without litters down...Check out the breeding (parents) or the planned breedings...

When buying a puppy...You're basically buying what the parents are anyways...If the parents are what you like then it's probably a good choice for what you'll end up with...with the puppy...

Another good thing to think about is to find and take along an experienced German Shepherd person to look at possible litters and/or parents...Get their opinions and then make up your own mind about what you like and would be happy with...

~Bob~

Hi there, I have had both show and working lines over the years and while occasionally a working line will show high levels of prey and defense drive, there is no comparison with that of the Czech working line dogs/bitches I have imported. The show lines have been easily enough trained and were very affectionate but lacked the  drive I was seeking. The Czech lines have been amazing to work with. They are highly intelligent, very loyal and protective and are a pleasure to be around. After careful and gradual introduction to my teenage sons and 10 year old daughter, I have no worries about leaving the dogs in their company. Interestingly I raised a show line pup of West German origin alongside some adult working Czech lines and noticed that his drive levels were certainly higher than that which I had experineced with the average show lines. Perhaps such a compromise would be worth considering?

Anyway, I wish you well in your search. 

It is up to a individual dog - however for your situation I would think that you would have a better chances with a decent West German working line than with a Czech one....I asume that you afre not talking about West German Show lines but West German working line.....

West German working lines all the way,your chances are better but stiil can be a crap shoot either way,one thing nice about chosing west german is they keep so much better detailed records looking far back into generations many years gone past,you say your not interested in sport but want great working temperment in many cases top sport dogs throw great working temperment not always of coarse,it is best to look at the temp.. of parents but thats not for sure thing either so look for proven parents that are known for producing as close to the temperment as the parents as you can get,but final do a complete puppy temperment test and if you cant tell what your looking at take a pro with you or a pro to look at vids of the pup with you,depend on what you see as a pup and not what you would like to see,if a pup is very drivey and sound as a 7 to 9 week pup your chances are very good they will be the same or close to it later in life.

The OP said they don't want to do anything with the dog, but want it to be protective. I understand this to be a dog that barks at the door when someone knocks or barks when someone pulls into the driveway. I don't see this family spending much time with trainig.

I'm thinking that a working line dog may have too much drive for this family, especially with small children.

A companion/protection dog is in order.


I am not interested in sport, all I want is a dog with a great temperament and stable drive that is willing to do protection work.

Thats the key what does the poster define as great temperment,what they consider great might be far diff than myself and others think,but I,m always looking for that top 2 percent for the total working package.aAlso whats defined as small kids,ages 0 to 4 dogs with high drive can knock over small todlers in order to get something they see and want.

My high drive dogs would NEVER and honestly I can't think of a time they ever have knocked over my toddler. Granted, much of that is maternal and the males are not quite as careful as the females, but even my rude-as-hell, snatch-everything-out-of-an-adult's-hands would NEVER  do the same to my son (4). He gets whacked with tails on a regular basis and he "hates their kisses!" and if he falls they're all over him wanting to play and wrestle, but high drive and a toddler are not necessarily a bad combo if the dog has the right temperament. They are WGR working line, primarily. You really cannot generalize. A level-headed dog is a level-headed dog, regardless of lineage, OP!!  I value that a lot more than many do, admittedly, as my dogs live with me and my son and other pets (Chihuahua and a cat). Sooo..regardless of drive, they need to be able to adapt to the ever-changing chaos of a real family home, not have to be relgated to a kennel because they cannot assimilate. 

I LOVE the last breeding I did recently, (though many wanted to crucify me for it) to an old-school showline male. I swore I was not going to find a showline I liked as much as my working lines and I was wrong! I am not interested in the trend toward breeding higher and higher prey drive into showlines that do not seem to have the nerve base to handle it and you end up with a hyper dog with high prey who cannot settle. The SL folks doing this say they're doing it to stay competitive in the bitework...but to me, that's flawed thinking if the dog still cannot handle pressure, because at least with less drive, they're still pleasant animals to be around. I sold a pup to a lady who has had two GSDs from BIG name show kennel. I had all my pups inside and I thought they were scaring her away, wrestling and growling and shaking toys. She called her husband and said she couldn't decide between the 2 I told her would work and he asked which was calmer and she said they were "ALL calm and much less hyper and neurotic" than their other pups had been. I was STUNNED. I thought my pups would scare her, honestly, and was trying to use my adults to show her they truly do adapt well and not to let the drive make her think they couldn't also be calm.

My rambling point is that super hyper showlines with obsessive prey drive are making it into many pet homes because even with a lot of drive, they're not working dogs. So, they're high-maintenance pets that the owner has to really really work on making a decent pet out of them.  Makes no sense to me- breed for ability to adapt regardless of level of drive or energy. JMO. So, telling someone who doesn't plan on working a dog to get a SL is not necessarily the best course, not without caveats, anyway. 

But there ARE very nice showline dogs out there. With the stud I ended up using, I met the dog, fell in love w/his confidence, and "been there, done that" attitude that only really solid old dogs have, and he still had DRIVE. Flawless temperament and when bred to my "a little too high" drive bitch, the pups turned out NICE. Drivey but calm, on switch, off switch. Excellent focus. So, I wasn't going to cut off my nose to spite my face and I used him, showline boy that he is. And I'm happy. Prejudice is never a good thing if you take it so far that you miss out on what may very well be a lovely dog. 

The moral of the story is that the OP needs to be specific in his quest as to what he wants and be open-minded about type of lines. There are showlines that might be ok, but I got the idea he wanted to do protection work, not just have a barking dog.  Maybe a nice territorial dog with a calmer temperament would do so long as he/she had enough drive to do bitework?