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by kees on 26 December 2011 - 20:12

Hello I`am new here and I`have a question about the following;

I see in some Englisch breedingline`s that they still breed over there with dog`s that have a bad hip score (HD-D/E). How is this possible? But what if a son of this sire dog accidental have good hips but carrier is of the gen and is used for breeding-line in the Netherlands.

What will they do with the hipscore from his father (the one with bad hips) in the pedigree-line in the Netherlands? Are they not valid in the Nehterlands? 

What I have noted is that in the pedigree`s owned by the RVB (Ntherland`s) the hipscore`s from England are not mentioned in the dutch pedigree. Well.... do they refer to a KCR number.

Does anybody know why the hipscore`s are not mentioned in the Dutch Pedigree?

Sorry for my bad English!


Kind Regards,

Kees




 

by Tempelhoeve on 26 December 2011 - 22:12

The RvB almost never take hip scores from other coutries. Only wenn the pedigree papers are send to the RvB with oficial stamps
Wenn a breeder in Holland confirms his breeding at the VDH or SV he may not breed with these hip sores and elbowscores
The breeders who are doing this are the wild breeders

by kees on 26 December 2011 - 23:12

The RvB almost never take hip scores from other coutries 

Oké so... I can confirm that they didn`t send the papers to the RVB. That`s a pitty cause there are now breedingline`s that have a genearation within them with very bad hips !

But what I do not understand is that the so called good breeders in Holland does not asked themself for the hip photo`s en elbowsscores from other countries.




by TREBONS on 16 January 2012 - 15:01


    I didnt realize that the Dutch  Kennel club did not accept foreign scores for Hd I thought that the whole point of the FCI HD protocol was that it was accepted in all FCI countries and that there is a reciprocal agreement with the UK kennel club ( all xrays are done the same way, same positions etc )  I know Denmark ,France and Spain accept UK results but you do have to send in the papers from the BVA to be verrified
  I could better understand ,if it were only the ED results they didnt accept ,after all there is no FCI protocol for ED and different Kennel clubs or breed clubs choose different ED protocols,for example, in  France the German Sheperd is done differently to the White swiss shepherd !(two protocols one country)
     In Europe there are 3 and possibly 4 different ways of doing ED  It depends on which country you are in and ,which methods and positions  are used These results are official and will go on the pedigree
 The results are staggering the same dog can be 0/0 using one method in one country, 3/3 another method in anther country or 0/1  in a third  
  This is the reason why the breed clubs do not make ED obligatory ,because quite simply no one knows the true result ,the only thing we can be certain off ,is that   ED is being imported and exported ,  that dogs are being used for breeding  that shouldnt be , and that dogs are banned from breeding that are ok !  but which ones ?
   This doesnt effect just the whites ,but all breeds that do ED evaluations. How many thousands of dogs would have to be re-evaluated if one method were chossen over another by the FCI and adopted by all national Kennel Clubs

    Nick

 

by Bendor Golden Duke on 21 January 2012 - 22:01

 
I have collected many pedigrees from England.
There is no X-ray results are in the pedigrees!

The ancestors have a name,
a stud book number, color,
  but no HD formula!

So I do not understand the question of this thread?

No one can accept HD-formulas that refer to original pedigree
are missing.

The question would be:
Why does not the Kennel Club in England
existing HD results in his pedigree?

It is well known in England X-ray HD-no breeding condition.

Known, anyone can go look to see the ancestors in the UK database and
whether an HD diagnosis is made, if so, with what result.


--

Ich habe viele Ahnentafeln aus England gesammelt.
Dort stehen keine Röntgen-Ergebnisse in den Stammbäumen !

Die Vorfahren haben einen Namen,
eine Zuchtbuchnummer, eine Farbe,
 aber keine HD-Formel !

Darum verstehe ich die Frage nicht von diesem Thread ?

Niemand kann HD-Formeln übernehmen, die auf Original-Ahnentafel
fehlen ! ! !

Die Frage müßte lauten:
Warum schreibt der Kennel Club in England keine
vorhandenen HD-Ergebnisse in seine Ahnentafeln?

Bekannt ist, in England ist HD-röntgen keine Zuchtvoraussetzung.

Bekannt ist, jeder kann die Vorfahren in der UK-Datenbank suchen gehen und sehen
ob ein HD-Befund vorliegt, wenn ja, mit welchem Befund.

 

by Wildmoor on 22 January 2012 - 11:01




I was of the understanding that a White Shepherd in Europe had to have a min of 5 generations of white behind it? am I wrong?
I cant understand anyone from Europe where I have seen some excellent Whites with good structure and good pigmentation wanting to import a white from the UK when many are not pure white, they have poor pigmentation and very few have 5 gens of white behind them or 5 gens of decent hip scores thats if they actually have 5 gens of hip scored dogs/bitches behind them.

The problem in the UK you can breed any dog to any bitch regardless of  poor hip/elbow results or even lack of them.

by Bendor Golden Duke on 22 January 2012 - 11:01

 "was of the understanding that a White Shepherd in Europe had to have a min of 5 generations of white behind it? am I wrong?"

It is wrong.
They have to have 3 Generations in FCI / VDH / - Germany.
But in some other European countrys it is possible to breed with a white on out of colored parents !
The rules are not the same in each country in the European FCI !

" I cant understand anyone from Europe where I have seen some excellent Whites with good structure and good pigmentation wanting to import a white from the UK when many are not pure white, they have poor pigmentation and very few have 5 gens of white behind them or 5 gens of decent hip scores thats if they actually have 5 gens of hip scored dogs/bitches behind them. "

But most of European lines are related, got back allways to the same dogs, we have started with in Europa.
Thats why most of breeders are looking for
new bloodlines. And of course, we have some health problems in our race.
Like Megaesophagus, tilted heads, heartproblems ....
And much of the breeders use foreign blood for having healthy puppies. Outcrossing, Thats why.

"The problem in the UK you can breed any dog to any bitch regardless of  poor hip/elbow results or even lack of them."


Yes we know this.
 But some UK imports has x-rayed parents, and , this is a lot ...

by Wildmoor on 22 January 2012 - 23:01


what you need to be careful of is importing epilepsy into your lines, or do you already have it?


by ocwm on 03 February 2012 - 03:02

@Bendor Golden Duke

"But in some other European countrys it is possible to breed with a white on out of colored parents !
The rules are not the same in each country in the European FCI !"

If you do this, you break the rules, that are the same in each country: FCI circular 77/2007 German Shepherd Dogs must not be used for breeding as a WSSD nor can it be re-registered as a WSSD.

The WSSD is a seperate breed and must not be mixed up with foreign breed blood.

It is pretty simple; check the breeders, dogs and papers. In Switzerland for example they do hearing tests, blood tests, MDR1 tests, HD, ED and LUEW x-ray. If not everything meets minimum standards, besides a temperament test, the dog will not be used for breeding. There are no cases of health problems.

by Mereminnehof on 05 February 2012 - 09:02

In Belgium it is possible to get a RISH for a dog with unknown origin, breed with it and then get ALSH pedigrees.

After a few generations the puppies get LOSH pedigrees and are then according to the pedigree purebred Berger Blanc Suisse.

This is apparently not against the FCI rules because it is the Belgian FCI organisation which allows it.

When you buy a puppy in a shop and he looks like a Berger Blanc Suisse you can get FCI ALSH pedigrees for the puppies in Belgium.

No way you can check the background of the parents or the health of the parents, grandparents etc in this case. They can of course also both be colored.

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