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by Alpinarc on 31 August 2009 - 21:08
Lendinez, what are breeders to do? It seems there are no winners & the loser is the breed, the dogs.. It is sad that human politics is stunting the growth, future, and health, yes health, of such a beautiful breed.
I must make comment on your post regarding 'height' where you say judges think the breed is getting too tall.
The BBS, like the GSD is a 'medium' breed, too large & it can not function correctly for it's purpose.
In my country, when a new breed is imported to be recognised, it must have a BSE submitted by the importer. BSE = Breed Standard Extension. This is breed standard 347 broken down & each area is described in more detail. This document is created/used purely for judges training & students of the breed, it's a good insight for breeders & judges to learn what the 'ideal' dog should look like as we all know, each person interprets the breed standard differently, so this BSE is supposed to give a clear idea on the expectations of each area in the standard. I.e: height, weight, coat, angles etc.
In the BSE for the WSS, it recommends the MAXIMUM height as the 'IDEAL' height! One would think that the middle of the height range would be considered the ideal, as it is in all other breeds. Yes, our BSE states that 'medium' is in fact UNDER MEDIUM!?? And includes 2 height ranges out of the standard, which puts 'large' as medium. Perhaps the people who wrote this BSE have large dogs & make maximum height as ideal to give an advantage? One can only wonder?
This is from the BSE prepared by importer:
Height (cm) - DOGS
60-62 Small (less desirable) but within Standard
62-64 Under medium but within Standard
65-66 Ideal
66-67 These heights are outside the Standard
67-68 These heights are outside the Standard
'Over sized dogs acceptable, Undersized dogs not acceptable'
.............................................................................................................................
This is how "I" believe it should be! (see below)
Height (cm) - DOGS
60-62 Small
63-64 Medium (IDEAL)
65-66 Large
All the above sizes are correct and acceptable according to the Standard and should not be faulted.
Typical dogs slightly over or under size are acceptable provided proportions & angulations are correct & balanced.
Does anyone agree with me? Do any other countries have an 'Extended Breed Standard' ??
I must make comment on your post regarding 'height' where you say judges think the breed is getting too tall.
The BBS, like the GSD is a 'medium' breed, too large & it can not function correctly for it's purpose.
In my country, when a new breed is imported to be recognised, it must have a BSE submitted by the importer. BSE = Breed Standard Extension. This is breed standard 347 broken down & each area is described in more detail. This document is created/used purely for judges training & students of the breed, it's a good insight for breeders & judges to learn what the 'ideal' dog should look like as we all know, each person interprets the breed standard differently, so this BSE is supposed to give a clear idea on the expectations of each area in the standard. I.e: height, weight, coat, angles etc.
In the BSE for the WSS, it recommends the MAXIMUM height as the 'IDEAL' height! One would think that the middle of the height range would be considered the ideal, as it is in all other breeds. Yes, our BSE states that 'medium' is in fact UNDER MEDIUM!?? And includes 2 height ranges out of the standard, which puts 'large' as medium. Perhaps the people who wrote this BSE have large dogs & make maximum height as ideal to give an advantage? One can only wonder?
This is from the BSE prepared by importer:
Height (cm) - DOGS
60-62 Small (less desirable) but within Standard
62-64 Under medium but within Standard
65-66 Ideal
66-67 These heights are outside the Standard
67-68 These heights are outside the Standard
'Over sized dogs acceptable, Undersized dogs not acceptable'
.............................................................................................................................
This is how "I" believe it should be! (see below)
Height (cm) - DOGS
60-62 Small
63-64 Medium (IDEAL)
65-66 Large
All the above sizes are correct and acceptable according to the Standard and should not be faulted.
Typical dogs slightly over or under size are acceptable provided proportions & angulations are correct & balanced.
Does anyone agree with me? Do any other countries have an 'Extended Breed Standard' ??
by Ironbabe on 01 September 2009 - 14:09
never heard of this "extended breed standard"
by Lendinez on 01 September 2009 - 20:09
Wow,
You should'nt have shown these BSE, some will cut their dogs legs and others will have to buy them lifters.IT'S A JOKE.
My opinion is similar to yours, anyway the dog should be firstly a harmonious dog whateever it's size is. Here in Europe you can see very big dogs (70) in breeding programmes usually used for beauty contest, but what I tried to say is that though most of the dogs are inside the height of the breed standard they in a 90% go to the higher height when It's should be reasonable to see male dogs with a height of 60, but I'm afraid thats the usual size of a female. And females with a size of 55 are considered too little!!!!
I never heard about extended breed standards, but I know the New zealand WS standard is slightly different to ours because it's more precise.
GOOD NEWS we dont have the same breed standard that's a good place where to start the breeds work from
You should'nt have shown these BSE, some will cut their dogs legs and others will have to buy them lifters.IT'S A JOKE.
My opinion is similar to yours, anyway the dog should be firstly a harmonious dog whateever it's size is. Here in Europe you can see very big dogs (70) in breeding programmes usually used for beauty contest, but what I tried to say is that though most of the dogs are inside the height of the breed standard they in a 90% go to the higher height when It's should be reasonable to see male dogs with a height of 60, but I'm afraid thats the usual size of a female. And females with a size of 55 are considered too little!!!!
I never heard about extended breed standards, but I know the New zealand WS standard is slightly different to ours because it's more precise.
GOOD NEWS we dont have the same breed standard that's a good place where to start the breeds work from
by zytron on 18 November 2009 - 20:11
Although i am joining and reading all these posts rather late
by Neigepearl on 23 November 2009 - 07:11
As a breeder myself I totally understand Zytron's frustration. You breed a beautiful dog, but sometimes it's the owners who "baby" them, do not socialise or train them and you end up having a dog that has separation anxiety, aggression issues or too shy or reactive. There is a genetic component, but every single bad case I have seen, the temperament has been the result of the owners lack of knowledge in dog behaviour, training and socialisation.
Sometimes you get puppy buyers who promise to do all the right things and the dog is placed in a new environment and falls to pieces. I very strongly tell people who buy my puppies the important of correct training, socialisation and behaviour... I also offer free personal training for new owners, so they do not create problems for the dog!
There are breeders in every breed, not just the whites, who just breed "pretty" dogs with no regard for health or temperament. Some don't even know what the correct structure is supposed to be!
I like to think I can breed for ALL these things at once; health, temperament, trainability and conformation and looks! I make no sacrifices in my breeding program... Investigate the pedigrees closely in relation to health and do your very best to know the breed before touching it and screwing it up, like so many people do!
Sometimes you get puppy buyers who promise to do all the right things and the dog is placed in a new environment and falls to pieces. I very strongly tell people who buy my puppies the important of correct training, socialisation and behaviour... I also offer free personal training for new owners, so they do not create problems for the dog!
There are breeders in every breed, not just the whites, who just breed "pretty" dogs with no regard for health or temperament. Some don't even know what the correct structure is supposed to be!
I like to think I can breed for ALL these things at once; health, temperament, trainability and conformation and looks! I make no sacrifices in my breeding program... Investigate the pedigrees closely in relation to health and do your very best to know the breed before touching it and screwing it up, like so many people do!
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