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by Lendinez on 15 August 2009 - 14:08
Hi, I'm just a fan of the white shepherd, I'm not a breeder.
I've been following the development of the breed since 2002 and instead of understanding the path in which the responsables (breeders,clubs,FCI) drive the breed to, I am more confused every time
We now have almost two different standards, at least in the race illustration,
some countries have more than one white shepherd club, some even have three different clubs or breeders organizations.
We now have two big organizations which englobe white swiss shepherds national clubs BBI and FBBSI trying to control breeding programmes banning one to each other.
So if the genepool was short it'll be shorter.
The FCI.be tries to regulate the breeding with circulars but in every country we can find examples of prominent kennels which continue breeeding their WSSD with WGSD from UKC, AKC or dogs from countries that are'nt exactly FCI regulated.
Not all FCI national kennel clubs take that seriously the new regulations and continue expending initial WSSD registration to dogs with unknown origins or dogs from american organizations that immediately enter breeding programmes. Meanwhile breeders from countries like for ex. Germany must follow the rule.
Experimented FCI judges comment the breed is getting out of standard, developing into too heavy, big dogs which in same cases have problems with their coat which, in their words, is getting too thick. Seems the WSSD is getting too short or too tall and the 12:10 is rarely seen and it's movement is affected.
It seems to me short and long coated are irremadiably becoming two different breeds with kennels very specialized in the coat of their dogs. It will sound reasonable to mate the short with long (bigger genepool)
When I take a look at the standard I can read the WSSD is a Family and working companion dog
but is rare to find studs which own in their pedigree working titles (better not talk about the females) and the character of the breed is getting closer to a labrador than to a shepherd dog. It seems most breeders dont believe in the working abilities of the WSSD.
Character tests are used in some countries but most of them dont. EVERY BREEDING DOG SHOULD HAVE PASSED A CHARACTER TEST, regulated by the national club kennel.
I would'nt like people to take these words as an statement, they are just questions I make myself.
I would like to know all your opinions. Please let me know if I'm wrong for the benefit of the breed
Thank you
I've been following the development of the breed since 2002 and instead of understanding the path in which the responsables (breeders,clubs,FCI) drive the breed to, I am more confused every time
We now have almost two different standards, at least in the race illustration,
some countries have more than one white shepherd club, some even have three different clubs or breeders organizations.
We now have two big organizations which englobe white swiss shepherds national clubs BBI and FBBSI trying to control breeding programmes banning one to each other.
So if the genepool was short it'll be shorter.
The FCI.be tries to regulate the breeding with circulars but in every country we can find examples of prominent kennels which continue breeeding their WSSD with WGSD from UKC, AKC or dogs from countries that are'nt exactly FCI regulated.
Not all FCI national kennel clubs take that seriously the new regulations and continue expending initial WSSD registration to dogs with unknown origins or dogs from american organizations that immediately enter breeding programmes. Meanwhile breeders from countries like for ex. Germany must follow the rule.
Experimented FCI judges comment the breed is getting out of standard, developing into too heavy, big dogs which in same cases have problems with their coat which, in their words, is getting too thick. Seems the WSSD is getting too short or too tall and the 12:10 is rarely seen and it's movement is affected.
It seems to me short and long coated are irremadiably becoming two different breeds with kennels very specialized in the coat of their dogs. It will sound reasonable to mate the short with long (bigger genepool)
When I take a look at the standard I can read the WSSD is a Family and working companion dog
but is rare to find studs which own in their pedigree working titles (better not talk about the females) and the character of the breed is getting closer to a labrador than to a shepherd dog. It seems most breeders dont believe in the working abilities of the WSSD.
Character tests are used in some countries but most of them dont. EVERY BREEDING DOG SHOULD HAVE PASSED A CHARACTER TEST, regulated by the national club kennel.
I would'nt like people to take these words as an statement, they are just questions I make myself.
I would like to know all your opinions. Please let me know if I'm wrong for the benefit of the breed
Thank you
by akaya sky on 15 August 2009 - 18:08
Hallo !
Ich bin zwar Züchterin, aber keine FCI- Züchterin.
Meines Wissens ist der Weisse Schweizer Schäferhund kein Arbeitshund, sonder ein Familien -und Begleithund. Wieso sollte man viele WSS mit Arbeitsprüfungen sehen, wenn sie von den einzelnen Verbänden nicht verlangt werden und dies auch nicht dem Standard enspricht. Viele Verbände und Vereine darum, weil sich die Leute untereinander nicht verstehen und Neid und Missgunst an der Tagesordnung sind ! Andere Züchter werden schlecht gemacht, obwohl sie teilweise bessere Hunde haben als manch andere und diese bemüht sind Inzucht zu vermeiden und nicht nur auf Schönheit züchten. Da gibt es sooooo viele Dinge die nicht richtig laufen, aber jeder meint seine Meinung ist die einzig richtige und die muss er durchsetzen.
Liebe Grüße Maria
Ich bin zwar Züchterin, aber keine FCI- Züchterin.
Meines Wissens ist der Weisse Schweizer Schäferhund kein Arbeitshund, sonder ein Familien -und Begleithund. Wieso sollte man viele WSS mit Arbeitsprüfungen sehen, wenn sie von den einzelnen Verbänden nicht verlangt werden und dies auch nicht dem Standard enspricht. Viele Verbände und Vereine darum, weil sich die Leute untereinander nicht verstehen und Neid und Missgunst an der Tagesordnung sind ! Andere Züchter werden schlecht gemacht, obwohl sie teilweise bessere Hunde haben als manch andere und diese bemüht sind Inzucht zu vermeiden und nicht nur auf Schönheit züchten. Da gibt es sooooo viele Dinge die nicht richtig laufen, aber jeder meint seine Meinung ist die einzig richtige und die muss er durchsetzen.
Liebe Grüße Maria
by Lendinez on 16 August 2009 - 13:08
Maria thanks for your opinion.
Hope I understood correctly your post.
I fully respect your status outside the FCI, though in my opinion the WSSD is a working dog among family and companion, at least that's what is wrote in the FCI standard.
I ca'nt fully believe the only reason for the division is just jealousy, is there any better reason for it? MUST BE.
Beautiful dogs of yours
Congratulations and good luck with your kennel
Regards
Hope I understood correctly your post.
I fully respect your status outside the FCI, though in my opinion the WSSD is a working dog among family and companion, at least that's what is wrote in the FCI standard.
I ca'nt fully believe the only reason for the division is just jealousy, is there any better reason for it? MUST BE.
Beautiful dogs of yours
Congratulations and good luck with your kennel
Regards
by akaya sky on 16 August 2009 - 18:08
Ja, nicht nur Eifersucht, da waren auch viele Streitereien unter den Züchtern.Jeder denkt das er der BESTE Züchter der welt ist und alles richtig macht. Viel wird auch verheimlicht was nicht gut war und wenn dann wer drauf kommt, dann ist der Streit schon wider perfekt. Mein damit , die Vereine können unter solchen Bedingungen nicht zusammenarbeiten und schuld sind immer die Menschen. Lustig ist ja das viele Hunde aus Amerika und england und ......... registriert werden können, aber Hunde, so wie ich sie habe, deren Ahnen schon FCI-Papiere hatten, die werden nicht als WHITE SWISS SHEPHERD registriert. Das geht dann nicht, aber woran liegt das wohl !? Da geht es dann wieder darum das die FCI Züchter die Konkurez ausmerzen wollen, also sie sagen selber Schuld wenn man einen Hund mit solchen Papieren gekauft hat und nicht gleich einen mit FCI Papiere. Da gibt es so viel das nicht korrekt ist , aber ich streite mich da nicht und mache meine Sache weiter.
Mit meinen Hunden mache ich Obidience und mit einer Hündin habe ich auch die schutzhundeprüfung gemacht. Meine Hunde leben mit mir und der Familie im haus und sie sind wie meine Kinder.
LG Maria
Mit meinen Hunden mache ich Obidience und mit einer Hündin habe ich auch die schutzhundeprüfung gemacht. Meine Hunde leben mit mir und der Familie im haus und sie sind wie meine Kinder.
LG Maria
by Neigepearl on 17 August 2009 - 01:08
Not exactly sure what Maria is writing since it appears to be in German.
I personally think the countries need to be more open and not restrict themselves to new blood.
It doesn't surprise me though, I see many breeders not understanding the Breed Standard or even what conformation is. Many just see the opportunity to create more white balls of fluff!
I think that if people are getting into the breed, they need to understand that it IS a working breed and not a "pretty" dog that just looks good.
The WSS imports we have here in Australia - I hear very bad things about.... shy/agressive temperaments and biting judges! These dogs are not worked either... Just bred and not trained properly and paraded around the show ring... Why? I do not understand!
Even worse... I hear there are new people to the breed with no knowledge that are importing into Australia from Europe! More people who don't have any idea about the breed getting them!
We have struggled so much with the breed here, it's a strange feeling to know that people with no experience are going to import new lines, but have no real idea about the breed or what to do with them!
I personally think the countries need to be more open and not restrict themselves to new blood.
It doesn't surprise me though, I see many breeders not understanding the Breed Standard or even what conformation is. Many just see the opportunity to create more white balls of fluff!
I think that if people are getting into the breed, they need to understand that it IS a working breed and not a "pretty" dog that just looks good.
The WSS imports we have here in Australia - I hear very bad things about.... shy/agressive temperaments and biting judges! These dogs are not worked either... Just bred and not trained properly and paraded around the show ring... Why? I do not understand!
Even worse... I hear there are new people to the breed with no knowledge that are importing into Australia from Europe! More people who don't have any idea about the breed getting them!
We have struggled so much with the breed here, it's a strange feeling to know that people with no experience are going to import new lines, but have no real idea about the breed or what to do with them!
by Ironbabe on 17 August 2009 - 05:08
hallo maria,
das ist nicht ganz richtig, was du schreibst. jeder hund, ob mit oder ohne AT kann beim VDH registriert werden und bekommt registrierpapiere der FCI (RWS oder BVWS). damit kann man ausstellen und sport machen. für die zucht kann man jedoch beim BVWS immernoch hunde registrieren lassen! dafür müssen bestimmte bedingungen erfüllt werden. zb. muß die herkunft ohne zweifel dargestellt und nachgewiesen werden können. dann ist es immernoch möglich... weiß nicht, woher diese "märchen" immer kommen, daß dies nicht möglich ist?
zum thema züchter und vereine möchte ich nichts sagen... aber ich finde, daß jeder züchter auch im sinne der rasse handeln sollte und für die rasse arbeiten sollte, egal in welchem verein man ist. ein zuchtziel sollte jeder haben und dieses auch verfolgen... welches natürlich im einklang mit der rasse stehen sollte.
das ist nicht ganz richtig, was du schreibst. jeder hund, ob mit oder ohne AT kann beim VDH registriert werden und bekommt registrierpapiere der FCI (RWS oder BVWS). damit kann man ausstellen und sport machen. für die zucht kann man jedoch beim BVWS immernoch hunde registrieren lassen! dafür müssen bestimmte bedingungen erfüllt werden. zb. muß die herkunft ohne zweifel dargestellt und nachgewiesen werden können. dann ist es immernoch möglich... weiß nicht, woher diese "märchen" immer kommen, daß dies nicht möglich ist?
zum thema züchter und vereine möchte ich nichts sagen... aber ich finde, daß jeder züchter auch im sinne der rasse handeln sollte und für die rasse arbeiten sollte, egal in welchem verein man ist. ein zuchtziel sollte jeder haben und dieses auch verfolgen... welches natürlich im einklang mit der rasse stehen sollte.
by akaya sky on 17 August 2009 - 08:08
Hallo Ironbabe !
Dachte das gilt mittlerweile für alle FCI-Clubs. Ist ja egal, Hunde von denen man die Linien haben will finden einen Weg zur Registrierung und andere eben nicht !
Hallo Neigepearl !
I dont know what lines where imported, but there are sure some dogs with mental problems- shy and agressive . That's why we have to make a mental test with our breeding dogs. This problems are not allone in this breed, they are everywhere. My english is not that good, excuse !
New bloodlines are good for the genpool, but not all dogs are good dogs.
Even worse... I hear there are new people to the breed with no knowledge that are importing into Australia from Europe! More people who don't have any idea about the breed getting them!
It is in Austria the same. Some people buy dogs in Argentina with CZECH bloodline - is this creazy !!!
Dachte das gilt mittlerweile für alle FCI-Clubs. Ist ja egal, Hunde von denen man die Linien haben will finden einen Weg zur Registrierung und andere eben nicht !
Hallo Neigepearl !
I dont know what lines where imported, but there are sure some dogs with mental problems- shy and agressive . That's why we have to make a mental test with our breeding dogs. This problems are not allone in this breed, they are everywhere. My english is not that good, excuse !
New bloodlines are good for the genpool, but not all dogs are good dogs.
Even worse... I hear there are new people to the breed with no knowledge that are importing into Australia from Europe! More people who don't have any idea about the breed getting them!
It is in Austria the same. Some people buy dogs in Argentina with CZECH bloodline - is this creazy !!!
by akaya sky on 17 August 2009 - 08:08
I got a breeding bitch for sale , healthy, good temper and not agressiv or shy, but the FCI-breeders wont get her registered.
Her mother got FCI-pedigree and har father too, but she has not.
Her mother got FCI-pedigree and har father too, but she has not.
by Sereno on 17 August 2009 - 13:08
Hello Akaya Sky
I would like to know why you have concerns about new people coming into the breed. I am from the UK although currently living in Spain and I have kept GSD's for a number of years in the past. I am currently looking at lines within the White Swiss genepool and would be interested to know why you mentioned Czech lines in particular in your post.
Regards
Sue
I would like to know why you have concerns about new people coming into the breed. I am from the UK although currently living in Spain and I have kept GSD's for a number of years in the past. I am currently looking at lines within the White Swiss genepool and would be interested to know why you mentioned Czech lines in particular in your post.
Regards
Sue
by akaya sky on 17 August 2009 - 14:08
I wrote that someone imported a dog from southamerica with CZECH bloodline. Czechia is our neibour country ! For this bloodline I can go 2 Hours by car !!
I got also a female from there, but she is not the best dog I have from the charakcter.
I got also a female from there, but she is not the best dog I have from the charakcter.
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