for those interested in the historicity of the trinity - Page 1

as a catholic school boy that lived in a street of non-trinitarians who were all told  catholicism was not a xian religion i asked a lot of questions re the trinity to my teachers, of course they had no idea of how/why the concept came about.

interesting that the author claims the persecution and slaughter of xians by opposing xians in this time were far greater than the persecution of xians by pagan based romans.

 

the things you don't learn at sunday school, the trinity issue was settled by violence and politics.

some good leads in this article;

 

http://www.ucg.org/booklet/god-trinity/surprising-origins-trinity-doctrine/

 

 

 

 

The United Church?? that is where you get your info from? 

The trinity started with Jesus himself,

1. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
   1. John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
   2. "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."
   3. John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"
   4. .'" "I and the Father are one."  31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him.  32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?"  33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."
   5. The Work of the Holy Spirit 26 “When the Advocated comes, whom I will send to you from the Fathere—the Spirit of truthf who goes out from the Father—he will testify about me.g

so you take yr religion from a bunch of pagan men some 400 years after JC at the council of nicea.

 

RS you believe that god created himself from himself to sacrifice himself to himself for himself

 

no surprise why there are 40 000 + xian sects all claiming to be right;

 

“Whoever believes in me believes not in me but in him who sent me” (John 12.44).

 “whoever receives me receives him who sent me” (John 13.20).

“those who love me will be loved by my Father” (John 14.21).

“Those who love me will keep my word, and my Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them” (John 14.23).

²⁴ “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Your scriptures don't negate the fact that    Jesus is God vk.

Jesus was God in the flesh.  When He was on earth, He was a man, but he also performed amazing miracles which included bring Lazarath who was dead for 3 or 4 days (sorry, can't remember exactly but he was stinking) back to life.  NO  ORDINARY man can accomplish that!!  He also cast demons out of people and healed many.  That is not an ordinary man. 

The whole gist of the Bible is God coming to earth and dying for our sins.  If you don't beleive Jesus was God, as He  himself said, you will die in your sins.  It's as simple as that.

The spirit of the antichrist that went out was the spirit that said Jesus wasn't God.  Any spirit that says He isn't God, is that of an antichrist.  PERIOD.

I'm not going to argue about it, scripture speaks for itself.

1 John 4:3

By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

 

Adios.

all depends on what you choose to ignore and what you don't, i don't think anyone can claim they are right ?????

Yes, Jesus is God. (Or at least he claimed to be.)

No, Jesus is not God.

Matthew 9:2-6, Mark 2:3-12 Jesus ... said unto the sick of the palsy; Son, be of good cheer; thy sins be forgiven thee. And, behold, certain of the scribes said within themselves, This man blasphemeth ... That ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us.   John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 10:30-31 I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. John 10:38-39 The Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him.   Colossians 2:9 For in him [Jesus] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 1 Timothy 3:16 God was made manifest in the flesh. Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Matthew 27:46, Mark 15:34 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Mark 16:19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God. John 14:28 My Father is greater than I. John 20:17 I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. 1 Corinthians 11:3 The head of Christ is God. 1 Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Colossians 3:1 Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Peter 3:21-22 Jesus Christ: who is ... on the the

…47"For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little." 48Then He said to her, "Your sins have been forgiven"

Only God can forgive sins vk.  Jesus WAS God.

The vs. you quoted show he was also man.  He was our example, thus He prayed to His Father in Heaven, as we should. He was perfect, without sin.  He came to pay the ultimate sacrifice! 

John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.

He knew the future, He  healed, He rose from the dead.  He is coming again as King of Kings LORD of LORDS!!.

AMEN

 

 

 

well all that is your personal interpretation, thousands/millions of other xians see it different.

 

jesus never once said he was god in the entire bible.

 

 

"He knew the future,"

 

so he knew/knows every human by name that would sin and go to hell eternally before there was even creation.

he knew that precisley on this day (easter lol) he would make himself to sacrifice himself to himself for the sin he knew would happen because of his creation, he knew all that for infinity before creation. he knew and it and cased it and is powerless to stop it and is uncaring and immoral for doing it.

 

"He  healed,"

proof/evidence?

"He rose from the dead." 

proof/evidence?

"He is coming again as King of Kings LORD of LORDS!!.""

proof/evidence?

 

"John 10:11
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep."

 

you do know the job of a shepherd right;

to fool the sheep into being obedient followers while they are being fatten up ready for slaughterered for the shepherds master.

that's what a shepherd does.

 

 

Why do you care so much what people believe vk4gsd?

a few reasons;

1.  i find religion, spirituality, science, the working of nature, the search for truth etc fascinating in it own right.

2.  i think fundamentalism is a major threat to us all

3.  i genuinely like to argue

4. i think fundies need to be challenged when their personal beleifs become a matter of public policy and forced on to others that do not share them.

5. other reasons but that gives you a general idea.

You definitely do like to argue, no doubt about that.

However, wether you realize it or not, you have been LIVING, as have your parents in a Christian 'fundi' society up until recently.  So how has it hurt you?  I'll tell you, the 'new order'  we are all headed for is going to infringe on your 'rights' a heck of a lot more!

Just to put another fallacy of yours to rest, the Old Testament also says the coming Messiah is GOD.

For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

and many more.  There is NO doubt.

http://bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html

Some may not like these two, but they speak the truth.  This video has a lot of good info. and news headlines that are pertinent.

https://youtu.be/1LZyKI5dNWI