Training style study results - Page 1

Recent article I read with results from a study on the different forms of dog training - http://www.smarthund.com/whypositive?language=en&version=1&goback=%2Egde_1962869_member_134216323 

What are you thoughts?

Sounds like the same group of people, and the same language used about a parent correcting his child without  paddeling his butt. Maybe want to check and see how that worked. Building prisons are one of the biggest industries in the US. There is a difference between correction and torture.
Hank

My thought is that the title of the article was off-putting.  I see that it was reacting to an "accusation" from the other side, but this type of discourse comes across as 2 little kids taking turns yelling "no you're wrong".  It's like 2 dogs on either side of a fence barking at each other.

The way I see it, the more tools in your tool box, the better off you are. 

From my perspective, the biggest issue in the dog world is not the type of training methods used.  It's that the vast majority of dogs lack any training whatsoever.  They get no training - period.

Stop fighting each other and focus on how to get more dog owners to train their dogs.

Jeffs, I see no where anyone is fighting over this thread. It is a discussion on training style study. Should every one just agree with the study? My opinion is the survey was not done in a unbiased way. Sort of like lab rats. While I disagree with some of their findings, I think it is a good thread, for discussion and other opinions. That's a far cry from fighting over a post.
Hank

The chart showing positive methods of training + corrections is what surprised me the most. I can understand various differences from the far left with only all positive
methods compared to the far right with the old military style of negative base training / corrections you would see the difference in dogs attitude toward handler / training.

But was surprised to see the 2 bars within the charts that basically were the same for positive methods mixed with corrections they are saying still increases aggression & poorer training results over all.

 I enjoy training mainly with positive methods with puppies / young dogs / while teaching a new behavior. But once the dog is mature & fully understands the behavior then I'll had in some form
of a negative response for disobedience / behavior I'm not seeking. Some dogs sometimes need a little more corrections than others while some many never need more than a verbal correction.
I can't imagine this would cause more aggression in a dog or less obedience results - ?

I agree with you. For years I was 100% against a e-collar. But after listening to so many in my opinion creditable trainers especially in police that use them for emergency back-up or call off on a bad bite, or a dog that gets out of eyesight in a building search. I am convinced they are a valuable tool. The first thing I did was strap it to my leg and see how it worked. Nothing barbaric about it.    

Training methods change all the time and a person has to learn to change with them. But common sense still has to apply. You don't reward bad behavior. But they have to know right before they can do wrong, kind of like people. Until they are taught they don't know. When they know it is a different story.
Hank

For me, somewhat interesting (to an extent). For the most part in life, I am a I "have to see to believe" type of person. And when I read an article like this I for the most part take it with a grain of salt. Every so many years and society's "thought process" changes or becomes "politically correct".

For me this article will not change my way of thinking, my thought process towards training. All I'll say is studies are good to a point but there are many factors involved. For instance....... Many years ago I heard on a radio station a "recent study" showed that 23% of Psychiatrists needed Psychiatrists themselves. Now my point might be off the wall but that tells me that the 23% are possibly still making a killing financially and that their clientele don't even know that the person they are going to to help them with their problems isn't at the top of their game, and they need help themselves. But Anyways...............................

I'll agree with Hank, look at when we were children and we were disciplined. By todays standards some of that would be considered child abuse. Now look at a high percentage of children up to College today and tell me somebody didn't mess up? and in ten/twenty years possibly worse. Twenty years ago in the military..................and today...........You can't even yell at/cuss at the basics. Someone just told me last week (retired, non civilian overseeing military) that the military now thinks or expects (say if they are 0700-1600 hr shifts and there's an ongoing project deadline nearing) that at 1600 hrs they are off because they have other things to do. Not like the old days where you stayed there till it got finished. So, times are changer, America is getting softer and that all trickles down to many aspects in our daily lives and the way we think.

I'll talk of my dogs; My male, Reiker, was being trained in the hopes to become a PSD for my Department. Heavy Obedience. Some corrections but nothing over the top. He has only broke my command twice in his life. @ 2002/2003. Now, my girls Anastacia and Arrabella (with Ana, Czech-hard headed)  are being trained for Explosives and I want them light Obedience. They have probably broke my commands at least 20 times and they are only three and two. So for the Author to say corrections will make the dog aggressive or have problems........ And while in the military I have seen MANY old school military K9 Handlers put a serious whoop on their K9s, helicoptering them and other things. No problems with the K9, no problems when the handler was near, no problems hearing there voice etc., Just my thoughts.

  



 

Articles like this only adds to the growing issues of many dogs lack of obedience and growing need for behavior modification today. I use to enjoy attending kindergarten classes with a puppy we held lback. But now I find I just don't click with a lot of their methods use. Generally feel really bad for the other peoplel class trying to learn to control their puppies. Trainers have told them to just ignore their behaviors, keep them in crates, etc... But what about just training them? At one class a person ask, "how do I stop my puppy from begging while we are eating?" the trainer replied, "just put the puppy in a crate?" Now I'm not anti crate but how the heck is a puppy ever going to learn proper house manners. What is wrong with teaching a puppy / dog to lay down in a certain spot / down stay while you are eating instead? At least sit next to you quietly. It just seems this doesn't make sense. I think positive methods are great but not using any forms of corrections from verbal / with holding reward to negative stimulation.

  

FYI,
Don't believe that it is just America getting softer.
The packet for WUSV participants included info concerning training collars.
No prong or electric collars are allowed to be used in Austria while practicing for the trial.