Training the same way as Dogs train each other? - Page 1

My training style/ method seems to be a bit unique and I wanted to get other trainers input.

I train my puppies at 2 levels.  
        1.  All of the "human" commands and expectations; and 
        2.  Similar to how a mother dog teaches her puppies; especially when it comes to boundaries and correction.

                  Boundaries (i.e. stay out of the kitchen) are taught with a firm growl followed by "no."
                  Hard corrections are met with a sharp "bite" to the ear.  No, I do not bite the ear, but a fast pinch with "no".  This correction is only done in extreme cases; like teaching not to chew on cords.  I do not use this when the pup is learning a human command.  That receives a leash correction.

It is the 2nd level that I am curious to see if any other trainers use this and how.   Any thoughts?

I am not a trainer or breeder, but as far as pinching the ears, I have been told puppies have delicate ears and the cartilage can easily be damaged, which could prevent them from standing up. This may or may not be of concern to you, but I thought I should mention it.

Funny thing.... I was at a house taking care of 8 dogs one day recently.  They have this beyond obxious Doberman who listens to nothing, corrections didn't work, he knew no commands, he was annoying as all get out.  Guess what worked on him? (keep in mind this is an 8 year old Doberman who actsl ike a 6 month old puppy both in energy and behavior)  Showing my teeth at him.......I was just being silly to see what he would do...he immediately knocked his behavior off.  Even the Husky, Little Dude....he knows many commands, but can be stubborn as can be in many aspects.....Oddly enough, a growl makes him behave more than absolutely any treat, toy, correction, etc.  He immediately goes into a better behavior from that.  It sounds beyond silly, and in a way it is, but it works with him...

Good point Starcharr.  I will make sure I keep that in my fore mind.

Silly? I am so glad you said it, because I have tears streaming down my face right now.  I just don't see this being carried through to the "next" step, so why use it when you aren't a dog yourself?

I wonder, fawndallas, do you also favor the tabasco sauce method of child rearing? Just curious? I know there are many ways of skinning a cat, so if it works for you and your customers, don't think I am having a problem with your technique. You just won't see me biting any dog ears, or growling at my dog to obey me.

Oops, pardon me, I am not a trainer, but I responded any way.

No issues beetree.  Your input is always welcome.

I am not sure I understand "tabasco sauce method of child rearing ," as I have never heard the expresion before.,,," as I have never heard of the expression.  As a result, I cannot answer the question.

As for the training, yes, it is a bit unorthodox, but so far it seems to get some good results.  I started this with Rose and also applied it to my Lab/Rotti mix.  It seems to get quicker results regarding correction and the behavior not occurring again.  This is the first time I have been able to observe mother to puppy interaction from the beginning and applied from there.  We will see.

Dogs are very body language oriented, so I use that to my advantage during training.  One thing I constantly have to remind myself is that dogs really do not understand the human language, to them it is just noise.  If you have a dog that has been taught hand signals to go with the commands, you will generally find that the dog responds faster to the hand signal. 

For example:  Take the "sit" command.  Dogs really do not understand the word sit.  To them, "sit" does not mean to put their butt down.  What they do understand is that when a human makes the sound "sit" a reaction from them is expected, followed with a consequence.  (remember, consequence can be good (treat), bad (pain), or nothing (same as good, just very little value).

[You can teach a dog to lay down under the "sit" command if you wanted]

I am only taking what a well brought up puppy (with primary time with mother and litter mates) knows and expanding it into their adult life.

Hmmm, are you sure about that? Because I can teach a dog to sit with only hand gestures but that doesn't mean he doesn't understand words. Of course they do. Mine learn words I don't teach them all the time. Like bedtime, squirrel, toys. There is a dog that knows over 350 words.

Yes, I am very sure.  Every human word a dog is taught is only because a human made the association.  Learned behavior is not always a deliberate lesson.  Take any word your dog "knows" and I bet I can figure out the lesson the dog learned to get the behavior.

Actually, this would be fun and a challenge for me.  Please give me a word along with the dog's response.  In the meantime, let me think about some examples with my dogs on "words" they know (beyond the known commands).

(side note, I loved Behavioral Science in college and this is my thread so I can take it in any odd direction I want) 

The only rule is to have fun and not take anything personal.  Maybe we all can learn something new.

My dog has made associations all his own. He even has self taught to alert to deliveries at our door. I am such a lazy trainer. The UPS guy gave him a cookie once, and now he does it for all deliveries. Newspaper, FedX, Jehovah's Witnesses. I never taught him this, I just happen to notice when I come home and find him staring at a door (I have a few), I know I have some kind of delivery.

Mojo will search for each of my kids by name. I had another dog where I had to spell the word B E D. If I said the word he would start to head upstairs for a night, and if I didn't actually go to bed when I said it, he would not like it. LOL