were the gospel writers really disciples - Page 2

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Mike Rivers

by Mike Rivers on 28 February 2014 - 23:02

If I can find it, there was a fairly resent find in Damascus. A Jewish script that was not early Christian but Jewish. The script talks about the risen Christ being seen. It is also signed by several people, which is very Jewish to verify information. The man they saw could have been John the beloved of God. This find was in the last 2 years, give or take. Nova

yellowrose of Texas

by yellowrose of Texas on 28 February 2014 - 23:02

Here is a Map of the days leading up to the Crucifixion
1. The Last Supper Luke 22:14
2. Gethsemane Mt 26:36
3. The Arrest Jn 18:12
4. At the house of Caiaphas Lu 22:54
5. Before Pontius Pilate Mk 15:1
6. Sent to Herod Luke 23 6-10
7. Returned to Pilate Luke 23:11
8. Sentenced to Death Luke 23: 23, 24
9. Curcified Luke 23:33

All the gospels known as Matthew , Mark , Luke and then John show harmony on these facts...also based on Jewish calendars...
the Pre existent Christ, The Christ of Prophecy, The Christ of Obscurity, The Ministering Christ, The Suffering Christ, Passion Week, Easter Appearance
Post Easter, The Risen Christ, Then the Second coming which we await

Mike Rivers

by Mike Rivers on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

The question is simple enough, Jesus asked who do you say I am? I say Jesus was the perfect and only son of God, that takes away the sins of this world. It just don't get better than that. The rest is just conversation.

yellowrose of Texas

by yellowrose of Texas on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

Events Immediately Following (#9)
The earthquake and the rending of the veil of the temple Mt . 27 51
The opening of the graves Mt.25:52
The confession of the centurion Mt 27:54
The conviction of the multitude Lu 23:48
The breaking of the legs of the thieves John 19:31-32
The piercing of the side of Jesus John 19:34
The entombment John 19: 38-42
The sealing of the tomb and the setting of the watch Matthew 27:66

Reading all these will open some of your facts you ask telling who did what and who saw what.

\Jesus appeared during the 40 days between his resurrectiom and ascenssion to many

Easter dAY SEEN BY: Mary Magdalene Mark 16:9 in Jesusalem
Other women Matthew 28:9
Peter 1Corinthians 15:5
Two disciples Luke 24:15-31 at Emmaus Jerusalem
TEN Apostles Thomas was absent John 20: 19, 24
Sunday following Easter he appeared
Eleven apostles Thomas present John 20: 26-28 Jerusalem

Time \Unknown Seven disciples fishing John 21: 1-24 Sea of Galilee

Jesus" charge to Peter John 21: 15-17
Eleven Apostles Matt 28: 16, 17 Mount in Galilee place unknown
Five hundred brethren 1 Corinthians 15:9
James 1 Cor 15:7
Ascension day Eleven apostles Acts 1:2-9 Bethany

Later Appearance
Time Unknown Saul (Paul) ACTS 9:1-5 1 Corinthians 15:8

The Gospel records of these appearances are somewhat obscure. Scholars differ in their opinions as to their exact number and order...
Hope this helps someone to enjoy learning more about what is important to those of us of Like Faith

YR


Mike Rivers

by Mike Rivers on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

Paul would be like headed for home, On the road to Damascus.

Shtal

by Shtal on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

Mike, sooner or later you will figure it out that it's waste of time with VK4. I wish that wasn't the case.


Shtal.

Mike Rivers

by Mike Rivers on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

I am a waste of time, only Jesus saved me. Paul and I took the hard road. VK is not in the same hell zone trust me. Unless he ran with Devil.

yellowrose of Texas

by yellowrose of Texas on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

Apostle John wrote the gospel of John,
Luke was a beloved physician and wrote Luke and Acts
He was a close friend and traveling companion of Paul so much of what Luke wrote resounded of Pauls closeness

The Apostle Paul wrote Romans , First and second Corinthians ,Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians (1st and 2nd) , Timothy, both epistles,Titus

Hebrews is not known which one of the people Paul, Barnabas, Luke, or Apollos and others all had a hand in?



There were 3 prominent James in the Bible, but agreed that James, called by Paul "the Lords brother Galations 1:19 was the writer of this Epistle

The Apostle Peter wrote Peter both epistles, and the Apostle John 1, 2 and 3 ,
Jude written by the brother of James Jude, as called by the others, Jude called himself a follower at first because of unbelief then a servant ,,,,since brother was a close bond and he was hesitant...

Revelations : Island of Patmos where Apostle John was banished to, was Authored most probably by John approximate A. D. 96
It is declared to be the revelation of Jesus Christ.

YR

by vk4gsd on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

thanks YR, at last somebody who is confident/secure in their faith.


RS, sorry man; aliens, giants,  different dimensions, you are to wack for me to take a schooling in scripture from. i mean 500 witnesses, documented by none of them at the time but written decades after the evnt, 10 of thousands of people swear to have seen elvis and aliens and they are still alive, hardly makes it true.

YR if you could expand i only asked if the gospel writers were the 12 apostles/discples, whatever you call them - the guys at the last supper is who i mean.

according to most christain web sites i researched it appears mathew's gospel was written first, so for the others to be in "harmony" would be obvious, they could have read mathew before they wrote theirs. your claim of harmony seems inaccurate as i have included some contradictions between the gospels re your example of the arrest crucifixion etc.


as for your dates, where is 25 december mentioned in the bible, chirtsians argue if jesus was born in bethlehem or nazareth, easter in the bible? i asked shatl to find the hebrew word for history - he didn't. 

anyhoo thanks for taking the time, i actually appreciatte it, you may think i have some agenda, but then again as i said i believe you are strong in your faith and answer in that strength.

here are the contradictions i a struggling with re your account of "harmony" between the scriptures;
 

V. JESUS' TRIALS, DEATH AND RESURRECTION

A. THE TRIALS

 

1. Where was Jesus taken immediately after his arrest?

a. Matthew, Mark and Luke say that Jesus was taken directly to the high priest (Matthew 26:57Mark 14:53and Luke 22:54).

b. John says that Jesus was taken first to Annas, the father-in-law of the high priest (John 18:13) who, after an indeterminate period of time, sent Jesus to the high priest (John 18:24).

2. When did the priests and scribes gather together to question Jesus?

a. Matthew 26:57 says that on the night Jesus was arrested the priests and scribes were gathered together prior to Jesus being brought to the high priest.

b. Mark 14:53 says the priests and scribes gathered together on the night of Jesus' arrest after Jesus was brought to the high priest.

c. Luke 22:66 says the priests and scribes assembled the day after Jesus was arrested.

d. John mentions only the high priest - no other priests or scribes play a role in questioning Jesus.

3. Was Jesus questioned by Herod?

a. Luke says that Pilate sent Jesus to Herod who questioned Jesus at length and then returned Jesus to Pilate (Luke 23:7-11).

b. Matthew, Mark and John make no mention of Herod. This, in itself, means nothing, but it brings about another contradiction later.

4. Who was responsible for Jesus' death, Pilate or the Jews?

The gospel writers go to every conceivable length to absolve the Romans in general, and Pilate in particular, of Jesus' crucifixion and to blame it on the Jews. The reason, of course, was that Christianity was going to have to exist under Roman rule for many years, which is why the New Testament contains nothing critical of the Romans, even though they were hated for their heavy taxation, and Pilate was hated for his brutality.

For the church, the Jews made an appropriate scapegoat because the Jews were a thorn in side of the early church. The Jews, of course, had far greater knowledge of Jewish laws and traditions than the largely gentile church, and were able to call attention to some of the errors being taught by the church.

The Biblical account of Pilate's offer to release Jesus but the Jews demanding the release of Barabbas is pure fiction, containing both contradictions and historical inaccuracies.

a. What had Barabbas done?

1. Mark 15:7 and Luke 23:19 say that Barabbas was guilty of insurrection and murder.

2. John 18:40 says that Barabbas was a robber.

b. Pilate's "custom" of releasing a prisoner at Passover.

This is pure invention - the only authority given by Rome to a Roman governor in situations like this was postponement of execution until after the religious festival. Release was out of the question. It is included in the gospels for the sole purpose of further removing blame for Jesus' death from Pilate and placing it on the Jews.

c. Pilate gives in to the mob.

The gospels have Pilate giving in to an unruly mob. This is ridiculous in light of Pilate's previous and subsequent history. Josephus tells us that Pilate's method of crowd control was to send his soldiers into the mob and beat them (often killing them) into submission. Pilate was eventually recalled to Rome because of his brutality.

5. Who put the robe on Jesus?

a. Matthew 27:28Mark 15:17 and John 19:2 say that after Pilate had Jesus scourged and turned over to his soldiers to be crucified, the soldiers placed a scarlet or purple robe on Jesus as well as a crown of thorns.

b. Luke 23:11, in contradiction to Matthew, Mark and John, says that the robe was placed on Jesus much earlier by Herod and his soldiers. Luke mentions no crown of thorns.

B. THE CRUCIFIXION

1. Crucified between two robbers

Matthew 27:38 and Mark 15:27 say that Jesus was crucified between two robbers (Luke just calls them criminals; John simply calls them men). It is a historical fact that the Romans did not crucify robbers. Crucifixion was reserved for insurrectionists and rebellious slaves.

2. Peter and Mary near the cross

When the gospel writers mention Jesus talking to his mother and to Peter from the cross, they run afoul of another historical fact - the Roman soldiers closely guarded the places of execution, and nobody was allowed near (least of all friends and family who might attempt to help the condemned person).

3. The opened tombs

According to Matthew 27:51-53, at the moment Jesus died there was an earthquake that opened tombs and many people were raised from the dead. For some reason they stayed in their tombs until after Jesus was resurrected, at which time they went into Jerusalem and were seen by many people.

Here Matthew gets too dramatic for his own good. If many people came back to life and were seen by many people, it must have created quite a stir (even if the corpses were in pretty good shape!). Yet Matthew seems to be the only person aware of this happening - historians of that time certainly know nothing of it - neither do the other gospel writers.

C. THE RESURRECTION

1. Who found the empty tomb?

a. According to Matthew 28:1, only "Mary Magdalene and the other Mary."

b. According to Mark 16:1, "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome."

c. According to Luke 23:55, 24:1 and 24:10, "the women who had come with him out of Galilee." Among these women were "Mary Magdalene and Joanna and Mary the mother of James." Luke indicates in verse 24:10 that there were at least two others.

d. According to John 20:1-4, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb alone, saw the stone removed, ran to find Peter, and returned to the tomb with Peter and another disciple.

2. Who did they find at the tomb?

a. According to Matthew 28:2-4, an angel of the Lord with an appearance like lightning was sitting on the stone that had been rolled away. Also present were the guards that Pilate had contributed. On the way back from the tomb the women meet Jesus (Matthew 28:9).

b. According to Mark 16:5, a young man in a white robe was sitting inside the tomb.

c. According to Luke 24:4, two men in dazzling apparel. It is not clear if the men were inside the tomb or outside of it.

d. According to John 20:4-14, Mary and Peter and the other disciple initially find just an empty tomb. Peter and the other disciple enter the tomb and find only the wrappings. Then Peter and the other disciple leave and Mary looks in the tomb to find two angels in white. After a short conversation with the angels, Mary turns around to find Jesus.

3. Who did the women tell about the empty tomb?

a. According to Mark 16:8, "they said nothing to anyone."

b. According to Matthew 28:8, they "ran to report it to His disciples."

c. According to Luke 24:9, "they reported these things to the eleven and to all the rest."

d. According to John 20:18, Mary Magdalene announces to the disciples that she has seen the Lord.

V. THE ASCENSION

According to Luke 24:51, Jesus' ascension took place in Bethany, on the same day as his resurrection.

According to Acts 1:9-12, Jesus' ascension took place at Mount Olivet, forty days after his resurrection.


 

yellowrose of Texas

by yellowrose of Texas on 01 March 2014 - 00:03

It is not a waste of time for me to share the Gospel anyway I can..I love studying the Bible and have the best resources thru my 70 years of life to share with anyone.
In Deut 6 the God of Jehovah said to share with those in the streets and everywhere your GOD

The only thing to remember you cannot pick out facts..you have to join facts...The Thompson Chain Reference Bible is my book I use. Everyone ought to buy one..makes studying easier and links it all and has a ton of facts gathered for you ....

I have worn out two of them..

This is a nice thread and is going well with good conversation done in kindness.

Have a nice day...4gsd hope this helps you do some reading...

YR





 


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