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by beetree on 15 August 2017 - 23:08

How do you tell?

Pet source people don't want to make the mistake with a wrong inquery. It is hard enough just finding a healthy specimen in their desired breed.

 

Also, figuring out what makes for a gene success vs the numbers sold and or discounted for faults is a real grey area.

Telling someone to "Find another breed" is ineffective and truly irrational.

marsiii

by marsiii on 16 August 2017 - 00:08

Serious breeders are those who keep track of the progeny of their breeding. Make sure the best of their get falls into the hands of capable breeders also (if female) and to good handler-owners (if male). A good breeder does not repeat breedings if there are obvious faults that re-surface, outcrosses making sure no line breeding for 5-7 generations after a goal of getting a certain type developed and maintained within a lineage e.g. breed one WL with consistent focus to an SL with a nice croup and tailset: targetting to improve the rear end of the dog by linebreeding on a ancestor of excellent quality, keeping track if the progeny was consistent also that there are no more high tailset and hooktails among the pups.

by Swarnendu on 16 August 2017 - 02:08

Why would a serious breeder do a repeat breeding? How does that improve from the previous litter?

by Ragnarok2 on 16 August 2017 - 04:08

I own 2 GSDs who aren't closely related from the same breeder. I did quite a bit of reading and research because I had specific parameters that the dogs must meet. Temperament had to be rock solid-we have a young child, live in suburbia, and don't have time to coddle or work with a dog that needs extensive training for simple things. Health had to be perfect-tired of hearing about picky eaters, allergies, skin issues, soft ears, bad joints, etc. Aggression had to be there and be appropriate-I want a beast on demand. Looks-I want a good looking beast, who doesn't? Anyway, lots of reading, studying bloodlines, looking at different breeders near and far, I narrowed it down to 3. Called my 1st choice, spoke to them for a long time, visited to meet the dog, it's dam, and other dogs there. At that point, I was near 100% certain the dog I was getting will check all the boxes and the breeder was honest and knowledgeable so I bought my fist GSD . Went back for my 2nd a few months the later. Best advise I would give someone is to find a breeder that knows their lines. Also, IMO, that's not a breed for every one no matter how versatile.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 16 August 2017 - 05:08

@Swarnendu. The reason I usually hear from 'serious' breeders for a repeat mating is that the first time they did it, they got what they were looking for, the pups were successful and with the correct temperaments and/or construction, so they want to take a second or third litter from the same parents while they have time. They are trying to replicate, not improve upon.


To the OP: Nobody says it is easy, Bee. Let me tell you how I would go about doing it myself if I was in the market for a new puppy tomorrow. I appreciate there may be a few differences from country to country.

1 I would 'read up' about my chosen breed; starting with bog standard 'dog encyclopedias' and magazine/online articles, so I get a basic grounding in what the breed is 'for', what is expected of a 'good' specimen. Whether it would really suit what I want to do with it, and can offer it (in terms of space, time, etc). Later, and ongoing, I'd read as much 'serious' material (breed books by breed experts) as I could lay my hands on, to improve on that knowledge and the nuances of the breed. I realise not everyone is going to do that, not everyone is a happy reader. But people should make some effort; a lot of very basic information sought ad hoc through these pages could be answered simply by a decent book on the selection, management and whelping of the GSD. Then you have it, indexed, at your fingertips. Not just for what YOU will/should do; but for what to look for a breeder doing, when you go to buy a pup. And I would site search here for articles and threds about good v bad breeders & their behaviour; and general info on the breed, and details re health problems.

2 I'd get the list of breeders in my country on here; I would ask my Kennel Club (UK) and get its list of breeders, both the ordinary one and the UK Accredited Breeder Scheme list; I would obtain details from the Breed Council of breeders known to have litters on the ground. I would not, for a first purchase certainly, try to import; I would never try to buy or import from someone I had not been to visit, and seen their dogs first hand.
No guarantees but at least its then unlikely to be some unknown BYB'er that you pick off the 'net, or out of your local freesheet. (See me chatting with Jenni about a youngster with ED, on the close linebreeding thred).

3 I would try to visit as many Dog Shows AND Training Clubs where there would be reps of the chosen breed as I possibly could. Observe the dogs; chat to their owners (about the dogs not the weather). Find out who they got pups from and what treatment they got as customers. See what scores highly in the competitions, and who bred it, what passes its BH and AD; watch what passes Surveys; which dogs / kennel names get placed in Conformation classes. LEARN. LEARN. LEARN. Know what I am looking for, so I can ask intelligent questions of a breeder, e.g. about the various health issues (including proof of successful tests), rather than just go "Aaahh, isn't he cute ?". I would be prepared to be asked questions by, and be honest with, the breeders I choose to visit to view litters; and I would be prepared to listen to their recommendations.

I hope you - and more to the point, people considering getting a puppy - find this useful guidance. It may seem like quite a lot of work; but people are (or should be) considering buying a sentient animal to be part of their family, hopefully for many years; and that animal will mean doing a lot of work (exercise, training, etc), and spending quite a bit of money (on equipment, vets bills, and so on), so getting into practice is no bad thing, is it ?

by duke1965 on 16 August 2017 - 15:08

 

 

go for breeder that does all health testing, that keeps pups from his/her litters to continue with and evaluate and go for breeders where mother and motherline are from his/her own breeding

furthermore look for reviews on breeder, not only on succes but also how problems are handled

 

 

susie

by susie on 16 August 2017 - 18:08

Good points, but what about a first time breeder? No personal 'lines', but maybe very good dogs...

I want to see health tested, titled parents ( outside of Germany I would want to see at least trained parents according to my personal goals ), and I would become very suspicious in case the breeder doesn't intend to keep one puppy out of the litter I am interested in.
Most importantly-does this breeder take care of his dogs according to my own standard?
Kennels, food, training, the overall care-I would never buy a dog from someone I am not able to respect morally ( has been a learning process, and my personal standard changed/development during the decades ).
And at the end it's only about the dog at the end of my leash...
Xeph

by Xeph on 17 August 2017 - 03:08

Why would a serious breeder do a repeat breeding? How does that improve from the previous litter? <--I did a repeat breeding because I got seven friggin' boys and TWO bitches from my first litter. I wanted more girls. I did like what I got the first time. I liked what I got the second time.

by Swarnendu on 17 August 2017 - 05:08

Xeph, nicely explained.

So, you got some very good males, but none of the two bitches was not good enough to build the line. So you did a repeat to get some more bitches hopefully better than the first two...

by Ragnarok2 on 17 August 2017 - 12:08

Swarnendu, that's absolutely not what Xeph said. She liked the girls AND wanted more girls.

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