Bloodlines and opinions - Page 3

Pedigree Database

West line German Shepherd
Puppies for sale

Team Marlboro Hilton son
Male for sale

VA Daugther for sale , super high quality
Female for sale

by apple on 16 August 2019 - 16:08

I think you have some learning to do. You said you were new to this. Has anyone with some experience evaluated your female? Often what some people think is a high drive dog is not actually that high drive on the continuum. Also, it is very contradictory to expect a breeding that will produce dogs that are good for pet homes and high level training as well. A dog that has the genetics for high level training, generally is going to be a pup that a pet person is not going to be able to manage. Maybe your idea of high level training is different than mine. Once a high drive dog matures and has had a good foundation, managing them is often very easy if they have been trained and raised correctly. As an example, I got my current dog at four months of age. He is a mix of West German, Slovak and Czech working lines. He has a very nice level of drive, but I would not put him at the upper end of the continuum. As a pup, he constantly turned over and played with his water bucket which is kept in an attached garage which is essentially his dog house with a doggie door that opens to fenced property. My solution was to screw an identical bucket to the leg of a workbench in the garage and put the bucket holding in the water in the attached bucket to keep him from turning it over. Within a few days, he had torn the attached bucket off the leg of the workbench. So I redid the setup using nuts and bolts instead of screws to attach the bucket. Within a few days he had torn the leg of the workbench off. I reattached it with 4 very long deck screws and that finally kept things together, but then he would lift the bucket out of the other bucket by the handle at times. That is just one example. On at least three occasions, he charged my wife and totally flattened here. He was just playing, but she didn't think it was fun. He would do the same to me, but I am much larger and could keep my footing. He would constantly bite and any time of punishment had no effect and just stimulated him to bite more, so instead of constantly fighting with him, I decided the best approach was to remove myself and go in the house. He is almost 19 months old and he has matured out of all that reckless behavior, but he is becoming a very protective dog. He is socially appropriate, but if I leave him in the cab of my truck to get gas or go into a store, I have to raise the windows enough so that he can't get his head out the window because if anyone comes near the truck he seriously lights up. I am doing high level training with him, but if he had gone to a pet home, he would have been rehomed very quickly.

by Bear414 on 16 August 2019 - 16:08

That is exactly why I am here posting. To learn.

by Bear414 on 16 August 2019 - 16:08

I didn’t think it was unreasonable to think pups could do high level training or be in an active home. I get some dogs are just too much for even the active home.

by Bear414 on 16 August 2019 - 16:08

I’m not talking about competing. I’m saying just obedience or maybe a title.

by apple on 16 August 2019 - 17:08

It just sounds like you need to put some more thought into the type of dog you want to try to produce and for what purpose. IMO, the breed doesn't need anymore dogs to be bred for pets. My dog is my companion and I try to do a lot of different things with him outside of formal training and enjoy him around the house, but he wasn't bred to strictly be a pet. The breed was developed to be a working breed to be of some service to man. Originally the work was herding and as sheep herding faded away, the work was as a police dog or a military dog. Some lines have been developed for seeing eye dogs. Breeding for show or pets is a bastardizing of the breed.

by Bear414 on 16 August 2019 - 22:08

I understand and am aware of the history of the breed and purpose but that’s just not reality today. There are way more in pet homes than working homes and that’s ok. It doesn’t mean they are bad dogs or not gsd. Anyway I appreciate your feedback.
Koots

by Koots on 17 August 2019 - 01:08

What is your female's pedigree and why do you think she is worthy of being bred?

by Bear414 on 18 August 2019 - 14:08

Koots- Do you have a stud dog?

TIG

by TIG on 18 August 2019 - 23:08

OP we really are trying to help you and would like to get you info that will be helpful but quite honestly it feels like pulling teeth.

Ok this is what I've gotten so far. You are looking for a stud dog for your bitch who you label as high drive but have not told us why you consider her high drive ( behavior exhibited,  reactions in particular circumstances etc) . You seem unwilling to provide a link to her pedigree which would be the most helpful thing to move this conversation forward.

Is this because she is one of the dogs your profile indicates you entered in the database and you have hesitations about getting comments on her or her breeding? Or is it because you seem to have indicated you are primarily interested in only breeding pets and realize that very well may bring a world of hurt from commentators?

In animal breeding you are always working against nature. Nature pushes to the median, the lowest common denominator.  By selecting certain traits to select for or to eliminate we are trying to overcome that. However the reality is while over time you can make progress and changes it is a very imperfect and often inconsistent process.

As a result even when breeding the best to the best there is almost always a range of type, ability and aptitude found in a litter and usually the ones who have less of what we want to go forward with are the ones sold as pets. It does not mean they are not perfectly fine dogs and wonderful companions, it's just that in the grand scheme of things we first are trying to hold onto the characteristics that make our breed what it is and secondly improve what we can as we go along because there is no such thing as the perfect dog ( except mine of course😊).

Now here is the problem with not setting a high bar on what is considered breeding quality and it has been proven time and again across many breeds. When attention is not paid to the traits & characteristics that define a breed the animals quickly ( in 1 -3 generations) devolve into something else entirely often a sad mockery of the original ideal and often exhibiting structural and health problems because not enough attention was paid to the possibilities. 

So yes if your goal is to "only" breed pets you will probably get an argument here. If this is the case at least be honest, tell us, tell us why you think it's  ok but also tell us why you don't  want to breed for the absolutely best GSD you can.

But if you truly love the breed and want to preserve it and use the abilities it has forum members are eager to share their knowledge.

Either way the conversation needs to start with you putting your cards on the table. Post your girls pedigree and training and health info if any. Tell us what you like about her and why but also what you don't  like and why. That is always the place to start when contemplating a breeding.

So let's try again to have a conversation that can get you the information you want.

by apple on 19 August 2019 - 11:08

I disagree with you Bear. I don't think it okay to breed GSDs as pets because it dilutes the breed.

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