German shepherd in KNPV - Page 2

Pedigree Database


by ValK on 24 May 2019 - 15:05

for my liking that dog did show too much of excitement.
off familiar framework, an incidental bite can be excused by some unexpected factors, but not, if that dog have been done this routine hundred of time during preparation and does perform it again in familiar setting.
from that video hard to say anything about level of dog's aggressiveness but high prey quite noticeable.
pair high prey with aggression and it's only matter of time when bad thing gonna to happen.

by apple on 24 May 2019 - 16:05

I am pretty sure you are a preycist. Why would high prey and high aggression lead to something bad happening. Plus, there are many more factors than simply a dog's level of prey and aggression to consider. Are you referring to defensive aggression, active aggression, frustration aggression, territorial aggression, pain aggression, fear aggression, social aggression, protective aggression, redirected aggression, irritable aggression, etc? Then there are thresholds and nerves to consider. High prey and high, confident defensive aggression is the catalyst for strong fighting behavior in a GSD.

by duke1965 on 24 May 2019 - 16:05

valk, all dogs but one in this litter have good agression, all of them good prey, for me, it is about balance, agression should be there, able to kick in when needit, dont need idiots that work in agression only

here is a male I bred out of the KNPV titled male's sister, more stubborn dominant dog, got IPO3 no flashy points


from LEX, I bred DAX video at 6 months, now policedog

by ValK on 24 May 2019 - 18:05

apple, i guess "preycist" means negative view toward prey drive?
if so, then it is true. i don't like pronounced prey in GSDs. it's bring more cons than pros.
you may paint aggression in any color you like but after all, aggression is just that - an aggression.
difference only in the factors which triggers and back it.

duke, there were nothing to point finger at you. it's just a such scenario, which not creates circumstances
to take the dog into fight against decoy, to be able to assess level of aggression and stubbornness.
nice, correct and justified response from dog in last video. but again, such natural reaction are not welcome in sport.

by apple on 24 May 2019 - 18:05

How does pronounced prey drive in GSDs bring more cons than pros? I realize that the assessment that a GSD has pronounced prey drive is subjective and different people will have different opinions. So are you saying you prefer a GSD with low prey drive?

by duke1965 on 24 May 2019 - 18:05

not less prey, more suspicion,agression,hardness and dominanceWink Smile

by Centurian on 24 May 2019 - 19:05

I think we both view that video and see it from an analytical point of view. In referecne to what you wrote : what I had written about ' control ' is related to what you have written . Many behavioral traits and many behavioral attributes go hand in hand. And depending the need and purpose of the dog , one is not better than another - just depends ....

A prey bent GS , a defensive bent GS : I want the novice reader to know a GS can work amazingly well in either / or , or a combination of both bents. Sometimes people will underestimate the value of prey oriented GS and others will overvalue a defensive GS ... and vice a verse . This is at times faulty to do . The reason being is because what matters is not only and solely the kind of bent , the kind of aggression but rather what is equally or more important is the quantity and quality of that aggression / bent. To add , if there is no control within the dog or from the handler then any superb bent of prey , defense , is worthless. To me this lack of control renders the dog insufficient. Also , do not dismiss while watching a video , how much of the behavior was learned , environmental ...

Not in repsonse to this video .. but in general , I have seen many dogs not 'out' because the 'out' was not taught correctly and many dogs take dirty bites because simply the dog did not learn to be /stay clean - that simple .. So for novices you really really have to see into , what you are seeing . One clue : Temeperament... [ that is a whole weeks discussion ]

Valk ..... Yes .... if the dog has exhibited a bite when it should have in that video , one can extrapolate that this has been many times before. As one poster stated in effect - we could see this early on in the video that it was likely to happen as the dog was escalating. I agree with that post and commentary . As a mattter of fact that is why I wrote intitially that I shut up . I do not desire to critisize but from every dog there is something to be learned [ especially for novice ]. To repeat : there is more than what meets the eye .

But Valk ....I kindly will share with you that : aggression is not simply aggression . Predatory behavior aggressions [ plural ] as opposed to defensive bahavior aggressions are very very different. Each excites different areas of the brain ... meaning the chemistry and the autonomic nervous systen in each is different and as a result the dog's thoughts , emotions , reflexes , and body chemistry is very very very different in different aggressions. The difficulty comes about defining and conversing about a general word , ' aggression', which in essence is an over simplified word used to describe many different phenomena . Unless one speaks in an exact definitive meaning , the conversation will take on confusion , disagreement and different meanings .

Valk , in light of what I wrote .. you are 100% correct , in sport certain atrributes , traits that lead to certain behavior is frowned upon. Then again this is neither good or bad because after all , sport is sport. If you are handling a dog for border or tact team , maybe you don't care if the dog has a killer instinct . But then if you are doing sport you would think twice about working a blood thirsty killer dog [ a bit exaggeration made to stess a point . So I think Duke [ he can speak for himself too ] does agree that breeding pracitces for sport has the GS diluted to much for a street working dog through the years.. and If he does believe that , I tend to agree with you and he .

by duke1965 on 24 May 2019 - 20:05

not only the GSD centurian, the malinois, both FCI and KNPV are heading the same direction, generally speaking

by Gustav on 24 May 2019 - 21:05

Centurian, I applaud your personal standards and preferences. My observations are based on actual police training, working and judging of said dogs. So I assess the dog and it’s capabilities to do LE this case patrol work. I really don’t focus on the handling, and not as much on specific execution as much as the dog’s ability to handle a situation based on my this regard, this is a nice dog. I try not to let my personal preference effect my assessment of a dog, but rather the perceived dog’s ability to do a job.

by ValK on 24 May 2019 - 22:05

centurian, an aggression is just appropriate reaction to an irritating incentives. causes can be different but response always same - aggressive objection.

the dog in first video obviously not novice and most likely his owner did put plenty of effort into training. still, in that dog the emotional excitement do override ability for selfcontrol.
it's also can be an answer to apple in regard of cons of strongly embedded prey drive. from my previous experience it's quite noticeable the paralel and dependency between level of prey drive and threshold of emotional excitability in dog, which very much impact dog's performance.

duke, you know the dog. not me. i just spotted correct action and pointed on it.

b.t.w. another one correct response from dog but on sport field 100% disqualification.


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