Limited Registration Discussion - Page 11

Pedigree Database

Solid Black mostly DDR
Male for sale

2xVA1 Vegas du Haut Mansard Daughter
Female for sale

SG9 BSZS 2017 Urso di Casa Caputi available Stud
Stud Dog

by ValK on 31 October 2018 - 15:10

more concerned with the rights of their paying customers

seems pretty doubtful excuse/motive.
most likely top tier price is real reason.
would be understandable if pup been sold to known and trusted person, which in most cases impossible, considering the quantity of sales.
wondering if these breeders have ever gave away for free the pup, who from day one was obvious failure.

by beetree on 31 October 2018 - 15:10

In response to Ruger's defense of LR:

Her argument makes a clear distinction that supposes breeders are of two classes, discriminate (and wholly altruist in their motives for breeding, which invariably comes down to the 'bettering of the breed') and indiscriminate (whereas a dog and its DNA are wrungout, to be bred and sold for the almighty top dollar.) However, even though this divide is only implied, it at the same time potentially demonizes the buyer as being responsible for a choosen action in who they end up paying for a puppy.

Most buyers would want to put their hard earned dollars into getting what they perceive as the best value with that same presumed quality, and the truest motives for the sentient creature that is at both the breeders' and the buyers' mercy. Most buyers will never consciously choose to support a hoarder who breeds, yet it happens all the time. Such is the power of marketing.

These hoarders of DNA are found in all levels of breeders as longtime PDBers know. I can list a quick handful of breeders who started off revered and respected on here, if needed. Oh what a gasp that always comes with the utter level of shock and surprise that such and such "respectable breeder" well known in the "small" world of dogs was keeping (and abusing) such "valuable" breeding animals that possessed some "rare" and marketed line of DNA.

What is left out of the above argument is the marketing minefield that LR enables to create the illusions of differing values within a litter of pups. At the same time the vetting of buyers by the breeder is transfered to the buyer who is required to take all the responsibility for following up to obtain some imaginary level of worthiness. Someone asked how to vet a buyer? One of the simplest ways of doing so is to contact their vet. Their vet can tell you if they keep up with check ups, vaccinations, the number of animals and if they keep these pets for their lifetime. All really good stuff to consider if one is selling pups to strangers.

LR creates the avenue of manipulation for imaginary value. Breeder's and buyers beware, do your due diligence with patience and then and only then does everyone win, and the LR paper becomes food for the shredder.

1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 31 October 2018 - 15:10

Valk~ I believe the money is the reason and I only used the example of “concern for fairness to buyers” because some breeders have used this as their reasoning for selling full registration. As if it would be “hypocritical”, “inappropriate” or “inconveniencing” to expect a buyer to wait until the pup matures before giving the full registration.

by joanro on 31 October 2018 - 16:10

Again, a person intent on breeding a dog for money gain is not going to be hindered by LR...all they need to do is either sell without papers, or get ckc registration on the dog. It is fallecy to believe that a slimeballs cares about full registration or that they won't get papers on their pup.
For what it's worth; Pesonnally, I don't sell very many female puppies. Most of them I hold back until after their first heat, train, exray for OFA, and then spay before I let them go to a new home.
With one litter a year, that is not an insurmountable undertaking. All of you who are determined to trash all breeders do not know all breeders. If a person calls out of the blue saying they want a female pup to breed to supplement their income, I suggest they go elsewhere. 

 


1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 31 October 2018 - 16:10

Breeding should be left in the hands of very few because frankly in my opinion to do it right requires a special type of person that most are not!

A good breeder in my mind has his heart set on seeing the GSD preserved to such an extent that money is secondary and his own comfort zone compromised by what he must do to see that goal through. 

Most breeders (not all, but most ) don’t have the stomach to do the right thing, nor the selflessness. 

 

1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 31 October 2018 - 16:10

Beetree~ You’re a wordsmith; I’m not! Lol
Can’t say I fully understand the first portion of your post. Say it a different way 😬
I think using a veterinarian reference certainly couldn’t hurt . Also I can’t understand why breeders would sell limited registration for a different price than full on an eight week old puppy.
How can one know what a puppy willl become at 8 weeks or so ,,, I imagine breeders that do that are just working the system to make a little more on a pretty puppy 🐶! Grrrr,,,

FWIW ~ my opinions are directed at no one specific. I am speaking in general terms. I have zero idea what anyone here is doing in their breeding programs. I would never say ALL breeders, but I do say MOST fall into the category which concerns me.

by beetree on 31 October 2018 - 16:10

Ruger, what I am saying is that the clueless but good hearted puppy buyer, which there are many, are unawares that certain types of paperwork they are being asked to sign, can or will, inadvertently sustain the situations that perpetuate substandard conditons for breedings by an unscrupulous type of breeder. When this happens, it is not the breeder who is chastised, but the buyer because he "didn't do his homework". Or, perhaps only did the odd numbered ones assigned, when he should have done them all for the extra credit.

I acknowledge your well reasoned rant against the type of pet owner who sees pets as disposable, doesn't plan for medical expenses and dumps their senior dog at the shelter. I just want to acknowledge that there are plenty of pet owners who are responsible and trustworthy to also own a pet with full registration and who will not feel the need to breed just because of a piece of paper allowing admittance to a certain AKC pedigree registry.
 

1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 31 October 2018 - 17:10

🐝 ~ I’m going to overlook the fact that you referred to my heartfelt post as a “rant” but that’s only because I owe you ,,,😁

Bee 🐝 said,
“I just want to acknowledge that there are plenty of pet owners who are responsible and trustworthy to also own a pet with full registration and who will not feel the need to breed just because of a piece of paper allowing admittance to a certain AKC pedigree registry.“

Yes, I ageee with your statement above  beetree! Of course I do, and I imagine you and I fall into this category of pet owners.


by joanro on 31 October 2018 - 17:10

Ruger, for once, you and I are on the same page.

Especially your post....Breeding should be left in the hands of very few because frankly in my opinion to do it right requires a special type of person that most are not!

A good breeder in my mind has his heart set on seeing the GSD preserved to such an extent that money is secondary and his own comfort zone compromised by what he must do to see that goal through.

***Most breeders (not all, but most ) don’t have the stomach to do the right thing, nor the selflessness. ***

My response @ *** and that ^^^^is why I am so discriminatory as to who I will let have my female pups.

As for money being secondary...that is exactly why I fall into the category of HOBBY breeder...because I do not make any profit.
Consider the cost of keeping and raising all the pups from a litter of six for two years to have first hand knowledge of what has been produced by a certain breeding. There were two females....at two years old, I had one spayd and placed her with a dear friend for companion dog...she was somewhat sharp and not a dog I wanted to put with any inexperienced person....now 8 years old and still in her happy home.
The other female of that litter of I kept for myself, @8 years old, she is the granddam of my 13 day old litter. I bred her only for one litter.
The mother of this litter is 31/2 years old and this is her first litter. She had only one sister and that female is a working drug dog.

My litter from two years ago, there were 8 females and only one male.....I placed one female with the Police Major in a big city in SC....he is not going to breed her.
One I placed with a family in NJ, they have the only brother of the mother of my current litter....she is being worked in protection and being titled ( has her obedience title and going for P1 ) I posted a picture of her on page one or so, gong for the decoy's face.
One other female of those 8, I placed with a man here in town who has been waiting for a dog from me for a couple years...he had her spayed and she is his copanion and watches over his children and wife while he works night shift.
Four I kept and raised...after ofa certification, and Good hips, normal elbows, I spayed one before placing her with the vet tech at emergency clinic in SC city...she goes to work with her owner every night and is ambassador for the breed..meeting and greeting people in the clinic....the owners are in love with her ( I GAVE her to them: a great home is what is important to me. I have wonderful memories raising and training her and to ask money for such a lovely dog is to reduce her to being a " product" !) Just the ofaexrays and submitting them was well over 200, not to mention the spay, another 200, plus vaccinations, plus, plus, plus.
Any of the three I still have will be spayed before they leave here.



 

1Ruger1

by 1Ruger1 on 31 October 2018 - 17:10

Joanro~ I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear I finally said something we can agree upon.
I regret that soon enough I might reverse our good feeling between us with something contrary to yourself! 😮
But for now I’ll be happy for the moment and drink an early glass of wine to the victory!!! Lol

And likewise it does appear that you’ve done many things to assure your pups well being and have done the necessary things to assure that your pups got into good homes.
I can’t be certain because I do not know you to any extent, but what I have seen of your posts I believe you love your dogs.

🍷salute ....


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