WUSV dogs that fail............ - Page 16

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by duke1965 on 23 October 2017 - 17:10

BE really your comment shows you are clueless, show me a video where a dog has pushing grips in a fight with the decoy coming forward, moving sideways, blocking the dog between the wall, and biting up a chair

really you see no difference between your video where the decoy is bearely alive and the dog is hanging on a prey bite without being pressured at all ?


 

 

Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 23 October 2017 - 18:10

Ya'll believe what you want. I stick with my "preybiting" dogs...whatever, not even worth getting into it...I have work to do.


by Glock on 23 October 2017 - 22:10

@ Baren
Even after ecperienced people like Joan, Duke, and Gustav chimed in ...you still gonna go for "prey biters". Why?
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 24 October 2017 - 05:10

Have you even read what Gustav said?

As for Joan and Duke, I will just agree to disagree. I've got plenty of videos showing my dogs under pressure. Look for yourself if you want to. There is an entire topic on his leg bites where you can easily find other videos of him that also show him under pressure. It's all out there.   If that's what he likes, okay.. good for him. It's not what I like and what I like may not be what you like. If he tries to insult my dog with "Preybiter" than I take that as a compliment, because again, I know what I've got.

If that's the quality they believe to better than a dog like Gazze or Dexter, or Uwe, or Fritz or Dina... Oooookay...

I'm so over this. Every topic the same crap. How many on this topic have actually ever tried to take a dog to the worlds? How many have gone beyond club level? And those people try to tell you what's a world level dog?

 

by apple on 24 October 2017 - 13:10

My thinking is that the genetics of the GSD have changed and been lost over the years due to IPO. Specifically, true fight drive is very difficult to find. Look at the vids Duke put up. Nothing particularly wrong with the dogs, but I see them more defensive than fight driven, as I see stress in them, even though they stay engaged. I wonder what would happen if they were pushed a little harder? The vids of the WUSV dogs were stressed by repeated threats with the stick more than actual strikes by the stick. I think judging and the competitive nature of IPO has shifted the genetics of the breed.
Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 24 October 2017 - 14:10

Bingo, apple!  Thumbs Up


by apple on 24 October 2017 - 14:10

Just to clarify, I think IPO has contributed to a loss of genetic fight drive due to it being a competitive sport with becoming a podium dog overshadowing what traits a working dog should possess. Years ago there was a rating for fight drive in schH. For example, dogs with fight drive tend to be on the dominant side and don't tolerate unfair corrections. That type of dog isn't a good match for a sport that demands so much accuracy and perfection, especially if you want to make it to the podium. IPO is essentially an obedience sport, even in all three phases. Compare that to KNPV, where judges are not looking for fast outs, perfect heeling, heel to toe tracking, etc. Also, dogs with high fight drive do not have to be high in defense. Look at the unregistered KNPV Mals and Dutch Shepherds. They show intense fight without the stress of defense.
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 24 October 2017 - 16:10

At least I am not the only one seeing defensive dogs with shallow grips. Thats why the entire notion of this topic is ridiculous.


You will always have failing dogs. Even KNPV produces failing dogs. But you have not met the current 'podium' dogs. Because specifically Gazze is one tough and dominant dog. So is Dexter...and a lot of others. Especially the US is obsessed with tough dogs.

Also, you may want to check into tye Schutzhund Trainers League challenge thatput up a trial under the Ooooold rules of Schutzhund. You may be surprised that the dogs can withstand the very same pressure dogs like Gildo could.
Baerenfangs Erbe

by Baerenfangs Erbe on 24 October 2017 - 16:10

At least I am not the only one seeing defensive dogs with shallow grips. Thats why the entire notion of this topic is ridiculous.


You will always have failing dogs. Even KNPV produces failing dogs. But you have not met the current 'podium' dogs. Because specifically Gazze is one tough and dominant dog. So is Dexter...and a lot of others. Especially the US is obsessed with tough dogs.

Also, you may want to check into tye Schutzhund Trainers League challenge thatput up a trial under the Ooooold rules of Schutzhund. You may be surprised that the dogs can withstand the very same pressure dogs like Gildo could.

by Western Rider on 24 October 2017 - 19:10

susie

by susie on 24 October 2017 - 19:10 (userip: 80.145.7.115)

Some simple facts: all the GSD clubs breeding GSDs without any "sport" requirements, be it IPO, KNPV, Mondio, or whatever, do have major problems temperament wise = those dogs are not able to work any more.
Alsatian, American showlines, India, and on and on...think about that, and try to remember where people go in case they feel the need to "harden" the temperament of their breeding stock...

It's always about testing and comparing. Even the successful people who claim they don't need to title their dogs do train, test, and compare-and almost all of them do have a "sport" history....

WUSV dogs that fail?
129 dogs, 2 of them sufficient, 14 insufficient.
Take a look at the countries-most of them glad in case they are able to send any dog to this event- 
take a look at the map-most of them far away from the Netherlands, not aware of the behavior of the decoys...

Yelling at the dog-takes some weeks and even a weak dog will be used to it-more difficult to find a local helper able to behave like the WUSV decoys...

IPO watering down aggression?
Only in case of either blind or desinterested breeders and buyers.

The percentage of dogs suitable for a "real" job has been always small-

the difference between the seventies and today?

Today stupid private people are willing to pay 3 times as much as police, different to former times today a police dog has to be a dual purpose dog, "aggressive only" dogs are not suitable even for police any more, 
and, last but not least ( and maybe most important ) today every freak without a clue believes that a dog has to be able to perform without training and knowledge, just because this Freak paid a lot of money for the fame of any ancestors, or for stereotyped performances on fancy videos...



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