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by Preston on 22 July 2011 - 03:07
Mobjack, this info came from a former police chief who refused to go along with it. You don't have to believe me on this but actualy it is true.
Don't you know about drug task forces, gang task forces, MJTF, and other hybrid groups wiith federal and state and county jurisdiction mixed in together. I know of at least one case where a dod operative took a duffel bag of cash into a police chief and said this is off the books money for you to spend as you wish. He said the following "when we need to run a readines exercise in your town, we will expect cooperation, that's all we want".
You probably do not know about the training trips to langely for chiefs and the agreement letters they sign to get free high powerreed weapons and armored cars and other expensive military equipment. Of course they give up jurisdiction when they sig these agreemensts and agree to defer when the feds request.
Why don't you ask your chief (if this is fairly large city) if he ever signed such an agreement. Watch his reaction carefully.
But believe what you want. We are each entitled to our own opinions.
Don't you know about drug task forces, gang task forces, MJTF, and other hybrid groups wiith federal and state and county jurisdiction mixed in together. I know of at least one case where a dod operative took a duffel bag of cash into a police chief and said this is off the books money for you to spend as you wish. He said the following "when we need to run a readines exercise in your town, we will expect cooperation, that's all we want".
You probably do not know about the training trips to langely for chiefs and the agreement letters they sign to get free high powerreed weapons and armored cars and other expensive military equipment. Of course they give up jurisdiction when they sig these agreemensts and agree to defer when the feds request.
Why don't you ask your chief (if this is fairly large city) if he ever signed such an agreement. Watch his reaction carefully.
But believe what you want. We are each entitled to our own opinions.
by mobjack on 22 July 2011 - 03:07
Naw Preston,
I live in a little backwoods place. We don't have police here.
I live in a little backwoods place. We don't have police here.
by Preston on 22 July 2011 - 05:07
Now for the rest of the story. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/21/video-shows-ohio-cop-grow-irate-during-arrest/?test=latestnews
There should be better help available for police officers before they get to this point where they lose control. And this help should not be used against any officer and should be kept confidential. For example it's too bad most laerge depts are so broke they can't rorate or reassign officers that seem too stressed out to less stressful duty for a while, like ballpark, special events, administrative, training ect. A good chief with an adequate budget should be able to see this stuff coming by doing spot checks on video tapes and police radio recordings ect. A good dispatcher can handle things discreetly and get a good chief to rotate stressed out folks that are losing it. But so many dept are so broke and stressed out, that police are just stretched too thin. In my city we are short over 700 officers due to policies of prior chiefs and severe cutbacks. It may be a formula from many problems in the longrun for everybody. And I do think month urine exams for roids are a good idea , but that is my view alone and has little support.
There should be better help available for police officers before they get to this point where they lose control. And this help should not be used against any officer and should be kept confidential. For example it's too bad most laerge depts are so broke they can't rorate or reassign officers that seem too stressed out to less stressful duty for a while, like ballpark, special events, administrative, training ect. A good chief with an adequate budget should be able to see this stuff coming by doing spot checks on video tapes and police radio recordings ect. A good dispatcher can handle things discreetly and get a good chief to rotate stressed out folks that are losing it. But so many dept are so broke and stressed out, that police are just stretched too thin. In my city we are short over 700 officers due to policies of prior chiefs and severe cutbacks. It may be a formula from many problems in the longrun for everybody. And I do think month urine exams for roids are a good idea , but that is my view alone and has little support.
by ggturner on 22 July 2011 - 14:07
Just wondering, does this criticism of the police fall into the category of "ad hominem?"
None of us knows what exactly was going on in that video. Yes, it looks bad on the part of the police officer, but as others have said, there's so much that we don't know. It's easy to judge, isn't it? Especially when you don't have a clue as to what it is like to be a police officer.
None of us knows what exactly was going on in that video. Yes, it looks bad on the part of the police officer, but as others have said, there's so much that we don't know. It's easy to judge, isn't it? Especially when you don't have a clue as to what it is like to be a police officer.
by alboe2009 on 22 July 2011 - 19:07
Hmmm????? Where to begin? Preston, ANYTHING is possible, but in my eyes the majority is highly unlikely. I can only speak of my experiences, what I know or have seen. And what I have read. As a LEO there are many things available to one. Now it's up to the individual to take advantage of what's available. Some don't, some do. As a LEO, you don't get younger but the perps, criminals and shit heads do. It's every LEO job, (to him/herself, their partners, coworkers, department and community) to stay in the best physical shape possible. But do they. NO! In my eyes the Officer in question was not that big. And surely did not appear to be a bodybuilder/one on roids to me. Just a person that was in shape.
This his how I know things and by all means things could be different at other locations. (Like I said, anything is possible)
I would think no Chief would take orders from Homeland Security. Period. Now if that agency had a history of wrongdoing and documented and proven in court of law then I would think some "oversight" arrangement would be determined and the "overseer" being Department of Justice. Say for instance; Prince Georges County Police Department @ the 2000 - 2005 mark. Then that Chief would be "taking orders" Per Se. But to be a puppet, don't see it.
As I know it, Police Chiefs are not Police Officers Per Se; they do not have "Law Enforcement Officer Bill of Rights", (LEOBR). They serve at the discretion of the Town, City, County or State. They have contracts but still can be ousted before completion of the contract. The majority of Chiefs I know are retired LEO from another Department. And even though they are there for another paycheck AND even though politics unfortunately are involved I don't see them being a total puppet. Not in their blood.
The Task Forces are in place due to financial hardships within the Department, Town, City, County or State. Also, grants are put out there and the Department needs to use it or lose it. If that agency/Department doesn't use that grant money they worked so hard to get, they don't get a second request/chance. Every Department doesn't get grants. Tasks Forces are in place for many reasons; Manning, a Department might have a criminal problem it can't handle and needs assistance. Experience; A Town/City Department working with say; Secret Service, (FEDS) on 'Counterfeiting. The list could go on and on. Sharing "Jurisdictional Powers" with your neighboring town; now you have TWICE the personal on a shift. I'm the type of person that when things are stated it's either a known fact, KNOWN; PROVEN by some means. And things that are unknown need to be proven. FACTS, DOCUMENTS, WRITTEN, PHOTOGRAPHS ETC.,ETC. If these so called Chiefs are being forced but are to weak or whatever to come forward then they shouldn't be Chiefs. But I just don't see it happening. Now if he or she f*cked up and an entity has something hanging over them then that is something different in my eyes to what you stated.
Unfortunately don't have time to go through all those videos. I don't condone ? maybe 20% of the Officer in question actions. But I wasn't there from beginning of incident to the end of incident. There are hundreds of hindrances for LEO all over the country with FUNDING in my eyes being #1! Teachers, Public Safety being paid so horribly. You wonder why these individuals want to take on these professions. I know of a City that had a brand spanking new Public Safety Communication Center built, beautiful, top of the line technology. Only to realize the city couldn't afford it. So, guess how they attempted to counter act that mistake? Laying off LEOs, the ones that were in the Academy..... No job. More cruisers in the parking lot than officers driving them. Only pro
This his how I know things and by all means things could be different at other locations. (Like I said, anything is possible)
I would think no Chief would take orders from Homeland Security. Period. Now if that agency had a history of wrongdoing and documented and proven in court of law then I would think some "oversight" arrangement would be determined and the "overseer" being Department of Justice. Say for instance; Prince Georges County Police Department @ the 2000 - 2005 mark. Then that Chief would be "taking orders" Per Se. But to be a puppet, don't see it.
As I know it, Police Chiefs are not Police Officers Per Se; they do not have "Law Enforcement Officer Bill of Rights", (LEOBR). They serve at the discretion of the Town, City, County or State. They have contracts but still can be ousted before completion of the contract. The majority of Chiefs I know are retired LEO from another Department. And even though they are there for another paycheck AND even though politics unfortunately are involved I don't see them being a total puppet. Not in their blood.
The Task Forces are in place due to financial hardships within the Department, Town, City, County or State. Also, grants are put out there and the Department needs to use it or lose it. If that agency/Department doesn't use that grant money they worked so hard to get, they don't get a second request/chance. Every Department doesn't get grants. Tasks Forces are in place for many reasons; Manning, a Department might have a criminal problem it can't handle and needs assistance. Experience; A Town/City Department working with say; Secret Service, (FEDS) on 'Counterfeiting. The list could go on and on. Sharing "Jurisdictional Powers" with your neighboring town; now you have TWICE the personal on a shift. I'm the type of person that when things are stated it's either a known fact, KNOWN; PROVEN by some means. And things that are unknown need to be proven. FACTS, DOCUMENTS, WRITTEN, PHOTOGRAPHS ETC.,ETC. If these so called Chiefs are being forced but are to weak or whatever to come forward then they shouldn't be Chiefs. But I just don't see it happening. Now if he or she f*cked up and an entity has something hanging over them then that is something different in my eyes to what you stated.
Unfortunately don't have time to go through all those videos. I don't condone ? maybe 20% of the Officer in question actions. But I wasn't there from beginning of incident to the end of incident. There are hundreds of hindrances for LEO all over the country with FUNDING in my eyes being #1! Teachers, Public Safety being paid so horribly. You wonder why these individuals want to take on these professions. I know of a City that had a brand spanking new Public Safety Communication Center built, beautiful, top of the line technology. Only to realize the city couldn't afford it. So, guess how they attempted to counter act that mistake? Laying off LEOs, the ones that were in the Academy..... No job. More cruisers in the parking lot than officers driving them. Only pro
by Preston on 23 July 2011 - 06:07
More information on Police Officer that threatened to "bash the head in" and empty his Glock .40 cal service pistol into (ie murder) of a concealed carry license holder at traffic stop. An appatrent gross violation of Constitutional rights of the suspect and trumped up, charged up violations for apparent "pre-crimes" that were not committed, but expected by the Police Officer who had an apparent emotional snap. Now on administrative leave, many excpect that this disturbed officer blew out his own law enforcement career when he lost it. A tragedy personally for the officer and any family of his and also a big financial loss for the city, since the city and the dept has a lot of money and training invested in this experienced police officer.
More history on this particular dept is now coming out. They used to automatically print out a felony arrest on tarffic violations for concealed carry permit holders when the law was first passed. So aparently, the police administration was fomenting bad attitudes coming from the top, suggesting very ineffective leadership whicgh can end up with these tragic results for everybody involved. Looks like the adminsitration failed this policeman early on in his careeer for allowing and perhaops generating bad attitudes in the officers.
http://ohioccw.org/201107214955/cantonpd.html
More history on this particular dept is now coming out. They used to automatically print out a felony arrest on tarffic violations for concealed carry permit holders when the law was first passed. So aparently, the police administration was fomenting bad attitudes coming from the top, suggesting very ineffective leadership whicgh can end up with these tragic results for everybody involved. Looks like the adminsitration failed this policeman early on in his careeer for allowing and perhaops generating bad attitudes in the officers.
http://ohioccw.org/201107214955/cantonpd.html
by Preston on 23 July 2011 - 07:07
Now, here is a very fine police officer in a sticky and potentially difficult situation that handled it very professionally, had a great attitude and is a credit to his dept. This man's behavior is to be praised. In my area almost every police officer is like this due to good administration who use excelent psychological tresting and good screening practices, followed by excellent continued supervision and training. Yes, we are short police, but good attitudes typically prevail and this seems to be due to good management.
http://www.pixiq.com/article/good-cop-vs-bad-cop-a-tale-of-two-cops
http://www.pixiq.com/article/good-cop-vs-bad-cop-a-tale-of-two-cops
by Preston on 23 July 2011 - 07:07
by Preston on 23 July 2011 - 08:07
Who to believe on this one. Gunshot positioning Audio based analysis of gun shot reports can be easily morphed and has been before. Echoes in confined areas can be a problem. The big problem here is no gun has been video'd or found. But there is the "thin blue line" and is that being upheld no matter what the truth is here? You can bet there will be a lawsuit on this one.
http://www.examiner.com/civil-rights-in-jersey-city/police-kill-teenage-man-after-shooting-him-5-times-back-and-while-laying-down
Contrast this case with one where the officer was arrested, charged and convicted because of a video tape and good unimpeachable witnesses of the event.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Video_shows_police_shooting_man_
laying_0105.html
Think if the victim had murdered a police oficer he would have only served 11 months?http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-13-Oscar-Grant-Oakland-Johannes-Mehserle_n.htm
http://www.examiner.com/civil-rights-in-jersey-city/police-kill-teenage-man-after-shooting-him-5-times-back-and-while-laying-down
Contrast this case with one where the officer was arrested, charged and convicted because of a video tape and good unimpeachable witnesses of the event.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2008/Video_shows_police_shooting_man_
laying_0105.html
Think if the victim had murdered a police oficer he would have only served 11 months?http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-13-Oscar-Grant-Oakland-Johannes-Mehserle_n.htm
by Mindhunt on 24 July 2011 - 00:07
"How many wrongful deaths are perpetrated by 'roided up or power weight lifter policemen who have too many hormones circulating in stressful situations?", "I am against police taking 'roids and pumping up and thumping and threatening folks.", Really Preston? As a retired Firefighter/Paramedic from a large city department who has worked with numerous LEOs over the years and having many LEO friends that I have worked out with in the gym over the years, I know of very few "roided up" LEOs who have "too many hormones circulating in stressful situations". I was also a body builder and had numerous friends who power lifted, I am curious of why you associated powerliftering with "roided up" Seriously, I am wondering about the underlying issues you have with steroids, powerlifters, and LEOs.....hmmmm
"I also have seen numerous of their MMPI profile too" As for the MMPI, it was designed for those individuals that are suspected of having mental health issues. As someone who is finishing up my doctorate in Clincial Psychology and trained in the administration and interpretation of cognitive, objective personality, and projective personality assessments, I have been taught by experienced psychologists that the MMPI must be interpreted in context and with data from clinical interviews of the individual who had the MMPI administered (it should never be used as routine pre-employment screening or any routine employee screening for that matter). Unless you are a licensed mental health professional trained in the administration and interpretation of the MMPI, I am VERY suspect of your interpretation of the results.
"I also have seen numerous of their MMPI profile too" As for the MMPI, it was designed for those individuals that are suspected of having mental health issues. As someone who is finishing up my doctorate in Clincial Psychology and trained in the administration and interpretation of cognitive, objective personality, and projective personality assessments, I have been taught by experienced psychologists that the MMPI must be interpreted in context and with data from clinical interviews of the individual who had the MMPI administered (it should never be used as routine pre-employment screening or any routine employee screening for that matter). Unless you are a licensed mental health professional trained in the administration and interpretation of the MMPI, I am VERY suspect of your interpretation of the results.
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