Alert: Ca Mandatory Spay/Neuter - Page 3

I'm not exactly convinced that the already undermanned animal control agencies will spend much time determining whether intact dogs used for breeding are titled in some way. And I'm even less convinced that the animal control agencies will shut down the big puppy mills whose license and kennel fees fund their own salaries. Finally, who gets to determine what organizations qualify as "a purebreed registry as recognized by the local jurisdiction"? Bottom line: this is a terrible proposal.

IMO a puppymill can be just one breed if there are multiple bitches with multiple litters at any given time. The definiton of puppymill will be something different to each of us I think.

Smoke and mirrors, p59.

In the long run any half-bright constitutional law attorney will be able to blow the whole scheme to smithereens under the U.S. Constitution's Article I Interstate Commerce Clause and also the 14th Amendment Due Process and Equal Protection Clauses. But that's no reason for Californians to sit on their butts in the meantime waiting for a test case. Let your legislators know where you stand and threaten reprisals against them if they vote for this.

p59- Very informative information on the legality of bill 1634. I never thought of the stop of inter-state commerence angle. The original proposal stated AKC, UKC and ADBA as the recognized pure breed registries. Now it is up to each city and county to decide who they will accept. I have worked at a shelter and assisted putting dogs, cats, puppies and kittens to sleep. It ripped me apart, a lot of them were animals I had formed an attachment with. I know many small breeders of different breeds that compete in different venues that only breed the best to the best. One of the top breeders of Ridgebacks lives near me. She breeds at the most two litters a year, has a three year waiting list for her pups, will take back any dog she has bred if the owners have to give it up and she does rescue work. These are the kind of breeders this law would hurt. The ones not in it for the money, and don't have a lot of money to pay each year to keep a prospect unaltered until it proves it's self. As far as trying to say this law would hurt puppy mills, it woudn't. So they have to pay a little more for a titled dog or bitch, they will make it back in a few litters. If they are the only breeders selling in California, they won't have much competition for buyers so can set high prices. Even if the dog must be shown every two years, the classes are only $28. It doesn't say the dog has to place, just show up. This law won't stop the people that don't license their pets registered or not and let them breed with anything and everything that comes around. It also doen't address the number one reason dogs are dumped at shelters which is 'I can't handle him/he won't behave'. That is lack of the owners not wanting to take the time to train and not poor breeding.

You guys maybe are not reading the latest version which is the one up for passing. In order to qualify for the excemption of spaying & neutering if your dog is under 2 years old you have to provide PROOF, the acceptance of which IS AT THE SOLE DISCRETION OF THE LOCAL JURISDICTION!!!! Don't you get it??? It's ambiguous on purpose!! No where does it state what acceptable proof is! And what the hell kind of proof is there anyway when you're training??? Same thing for the whole damn bill. It's stupid.

This is good for the pet store industry, they import the dogs outside of CA.

Like sueincc, I will become a law breaker if this passes. Wake up and look at the big picture. Like so much legislation that passes, people simply look at a portion and do not look at the potential problems. So in order to get the puppy mills we are going to take my rights, your rights and every law abiding responsible owners rights away????????? I have working dogs. I currently have a male working line dog that is 11 months old. I do not know if I will breed him or not. Much depends on that. IF his hips turn out good, IF he continues to mature into EVERYTHING I expect from a working dog. IF I am in a position to deal with all of the issues surrounding the responsibility of breeding, and on and on and on. If you want me to go on I can. I mentioned SOME of the reasons that cause me MUCH concern with this type of legislation. I did not even go into what I have seen happening in this country since the 60's. My rights being taken one by one by those that do not take the time to THINK it through. I fought in a war to protect my rights as well as yours. Not to let some air headed legislator take them away because he thinks he can solve a problem that deals with ethics, morality, and itegrity. You will never conquer the greed in man. You will never force people to use integriy by putting new laws on the books. Trust me, those that have no integrity will not gain it because of a new law. They will only find ways around it. PLEASE folks, do not over react to one problem by creating another. And another that will have far more devestating results then the first. PLEASE do not respond to issues like this with your emotions. I really don't like hurting people in any way, so please understand sunsilver, this is not personal, but you cannot go through this life responding to problems such as this one with the argument that shelters are so sad and cause so much unwanted pain. Because I see pain or unfair conditions does not mean I should throw away common sense and attack a problem with a sludge hammer. I can only hope that there are still some folks out there that can see the ignorance of Californias thinking on this. I better quit now before I say how I really feel. Thanks

sunsilver, Just a quick thought. You mentioned " I would like to see YOU spend a day in a shelter............." I agree with you. I probably would not like it. The difference in us though is that I would not react to this in the same way. Many injustices in the world but I do not over react or react in a manner that causes more problems then the first. I truley am sorry for the cynical manner that I addressed you in my first post. It was very late and I was very tired and I reacted out of emotion as well. Problems of any kind need to be dealt with in thoughtful, well laid out plans thatare only a deterent to the guilty and not adversely effect the innocent. I have the right to keep my mail intact and should not have to justify it to any one unless I am hurting the animal or those around me. When I infringe on others rights then I should lose some of mine. If I decide that after much consideration that after 4-5 years that I have found the right bitch, now have the room an resources to handle another puppy responsibly then I should not have to be penalized because of some puppy mill.I have worked with fellons for many years and know first hand that those that have no concern for man nor beast will continue where money and self interrest is concerned. Same for most politicians. Again though I do want to offer my apologies for being cynical in my first post, their is no room for that in healthy debate and problem solving. Please trust me on this one however, if politicians are involved and if playing on ones emotions are involved then it is ALWAYS WISE TO STEP BACK and look closer to the damages it may cause. Some are gifted in this and some are not, but this principle is always true. Listen to those that have been around awhile and have seen the flaws in the system.

olskoolgsds, I guess I got emotional when you accused me of being emotional. ;-) I have a background in science (biology) and teaching, and work as a registered nurse, so I like to think I am pretty good at critical thinking, and got mad when you branded me as a 'bleeding heart'. Well, at one time, several of my uncles made their living at dairy farming, and I just laugh at the PETA folks who say dairy farming is cruel. Those cows had it darn good! So, just the facts, m'am... To state the obvious: 1)Far too many dogs (and cats) are being bred in N. America. 2)The AKC is a registration body ONLY, and has no control over what they register, other than to verify that the parents are registered. 3) This results in many unwanted pets being dumped at the pound and euthanized. 4) I find this situation unacceptable, and unlike you, oslkoolgsds I believe there has to be some sort of a logical solution. The first post I made in this thread was an effort to pick the brains of the many experienced dog people here, and get some ideas. I believe there are other countries that HAVE dealt successfully with this problem. I refuse to believe that the American way is the ONLY way. (I'm sure you'll agree there...look what they've done to the American Shepherd...) Can anyone give input on how countries like Germany handle controlling the pet population? I'm curious to know. My take on 'rights' is they come with something called 'responsibility'. If people aren't exercising their rights in a responsible manner, then it's the job of the government/law enforcement agencies to step in and take charge. But things are a bit different up here in Canada. I think we still have respect for the law, because it's not so corrupt. (I read some of those articles about unlawful seizure of property, etc. Pretty scary stuff!) Or maybe I'm just hopelessly naive... [sigh]... Need to call it a night! (Wanders off, wondering why olskoolgsds is worrying about keeping his 'mail' intact... LOL!)