What to do with cull/wash out - Page 5

Wow.

From washout to LEO prospect. Hope you didn’t lose your investment.

Was this a case of, “Careful what you ask for? You just might get it.”

Glad to know the dog is Not a Wash Out & now he is in good hands.

If you admittedly are not a strong handler, the dog may be better off with someone who knows what the dog is and can use his abilities. It is a lot more responsibility to own and handle a dog that will target the man and potentially bite 'for real', and many people cannot handle that responsibility or live somewhere that the liability is too high to keep such a dog. Good for you to recognize your limitations and place the dog in a more appropriate home.

Wow...just WOW!

I'm really glad you got someone who was able to do an accurate assessment of your dog. And I think you did the right thing by him. Hope it works out for the best!

Do you have the option of taking him back if he washes out of the law enforcement training?

Beetree; I didn't take his statement to mean that he's going to be a Leo prospect just that he's more cut out for that type of "real" work. Both guys, the trainer who made the assessment and the man who purchased the dog, were former LEO. In his talk with the breeder, which I listened in on as it was on my phone on speakerphone, he spoke about his experience with this type of dog and his desire to put him in "the best working situation" for him. As for the investment, no to be honest I probably didn't recoup the full amount I've spent on this dog since I've had him but I more than covered his cost as a puppy. They probably paid me less than they would a vendor for a dog of this age and level of training. Idc so much about that Im just thankful he'll be in capable hands. I asked for a sport dog with a little bit of seriousness and I got a serious dog with a little bit of sportiness.

Koots; this was my first gsd and while I did manage him for the time I had him I don't think I was the right person to get the most out of him. After an afternoon with this trainer I also realize I didn't have the right trainers for the dog either. At the end of the day, while we didn't have any real mishaps - he's just not the dog for a first time handler and he's got more potential than I can meet apparently.

Sunsilver; the dog is his outright. Nothing about him coming back to me if he washes out of whatever training they end up doing with him. Although the breeder and the purchaser exchanged phone numbers and emails so they may end up with some arrangement set up for the breeder to have first right of refusal in such an event. Thanks for the well wishes and for supporting the decision. I really hope I did right by him

crusty, I can't even begin to imagine how tough the ride back home must have been. I do hope the fellow who bought him, or the dog's breeder, will keep you updated from time to time as to how the dog is doing in his new situation, just to ease any doubts you might have.

It sounds like the trainer you saw today did a thorough assessment of the dog, and it takes a great deal of integrity for a person to be willing to accept that a dog a they've raised from a pup has exceeded his or her handling level. It can be tricky to live with a truly serious, civil dog in the average family situation, especially if that's not what the dog was expected to be like in the first place.

I hope your next dog will be a better fit for the things you want to do together. Much respect to you for putting what's best for this one ahead of your emotions or pride.

You said you were "looking for a sport prospect that has the nerves, drive, and aggression necsssary to bite for real if need be"....


... That is exactly what you have just sold ... 

Yep sounds that way to me

I applaud the original poster for having the courage, strength, and humility to admit that the dog would be better in a different situation. Not everyone would do that. Like Bee said, "be careful what you wish for"! There is no shame in admitting that you made a mistake and correcting that mistake. Great job and best wishes to you on finding your next sport dog! I am sure you have gained a lot of information from this experience that you can use in the future. Good luck!!!!!

Interesting thread for a lot of people to learn from .
So I make some general points . People educate themselves , or think they do .. but they do not. You never ever ever buy a dog based on the pedigree. Never ever ever ..... The pedigree is a guide ... no more, no less. A titled dog in and of itself means nothing absolutely NOTHING !!!!. What means something is the parents' temeprtamnt and behavioral attributes. Becasuse what they have , is not a given , but it is possible* can be transferred to the offspring. What the parents don't have genetically , they can't ever pass to their progeny . The truth is : What matters is the dog itself, in the OP case that individual puppy and only that puppy/dog. So as experienced people realize , a good ctitique of the parents themselves is a starting point. And experienced people know that every working litter does not produce every puppy that is a working puppy . Ditto for showing. The best advice is that if you want an adult dog for Specific tasks and reasons*** , then that is the dog ... not the puppy ... but the dog, that you specifically seek out. I know this OP said she/he thought of that .. but my comment would be , for certain GS that I wanted I searched and waited , years... not a year ... YEARS before I got ALL the Specifics and ATTRIBUTES that I desired form that dog. I flew all over USA , flew to many countires in Europe at other times for toher GSs. Additionally knowing or taking someone with you to puppy or dog selection [ if possible] that is fully capable to evaluate the dog is critical . And my feeling is that unless you are an expert in the endeavor you want that dog for, then you do not have the qualifications to say you can see for yourself . I have found at times also breeders can be fantastic breeders but fall short of evalutaing what they have . They think they do , but many do not ! Many aren't knowlegeabble enough to see the potential /traits in their pups. And for those that are getting in a tizzy .. how many breders actually train their dogs to tilte ? Many , yes .. but many do not ! others are paid to title their dogs [ which is ok ].
Given the decision to buy a puppy ... that puppy also has to be intensely evaluated for what the owner is desiring. You need to see if the puppy exhibits all the innate behavioral traits and innate expression of the potential for the performance. And that is not so easy to do , or boiler plate. For example, if I hear someone say ,for PP you need a dog with some independence that is for me to much a generality . Because a dog with way way to much independence may not be the working the dog that owner wants. Evaluating a dog also can be a very very close guestimation . Most every one experienced knows that puppies can and do change , are affected by rearing and are affected by environment . Also what plays a role in the end result is the training [helper /owner] capability. Personally I observe a puppy I am intersted in for work 2,3,4, times before I decide about it . For show , I see the pup at 5 weeks , 6 , 6.5 , 7 and , 8 . At 6.5 weeks I often make my decision.
The other aspect is : given the state of the GS world today ... it is not always so easy to get a dog that will do it all. A great sport dog is not the best PP dog , a great PP dog does not make the best sport dog. That is just the way the GS is now a day. Is it possible to get a dog like that today .. absolutely yes .. but it is not the norm . Which leads me to stress , patience when selecting.
Something else to be taken away from this thread : I start of with a story ..once my friend got a Malinois puppy . At 8 months we started working him . Several of us are very capable decoys/helpers. So this time my two other friends worked the dog. Rag work and tug on a line. The dog just stood there and looked at the helpers . Oh .. no prey drive they concluded . Another friend took a tug and ran in front, past the dog. The dog just stood there. Oh , we told you , no prey drive. Huhhh , so I grabbed a tug , ran laterally toward the dog , at the point of being in front of the dog, turned and made a movement and BAM .. the dog was right onto me biting the tug. RIGHTTTTTT , nomprey .. yes this dog had the so called prey drive. They were going to give up on this dog. Same ssituation as the OP. My friend the owner was a policeman . The end of story : this dog went on to become a policeman's canine the next town over. What was wrong here : this dog had his own "style" . He didn't work the way you think he should.. BTW I think the word work is diluted/ I better state interacted and thought instead. He worked / behaved / problem solved the way he wanted to !! Dogs have preferences and styles. !!! Another friend had a GS - that never ever chased anything , not so much as a ball. . Dog matured to 1 year old-chased a ball like crazy , by 2 years old accomplished Brevet and French Ring 1 !! .... I could think : htese two stories , why can't a dog that definitely chases toys and items , get titled ?
So why all this story telling : Some people on this thread gave some insightful advice on how to try to work this dog and about maturity. Do I know what this OP's dog will do in work - NO ... But what the OP wrote ....I have read [ and am listening to] . And I am wondering a little bit about this dog. The OP said the dog would chase many things , yes..... So , WHY ... I know two people evaluated the dog , I know , I know ... But, what is it about this matter , that the dog WILL CHASE , but in the work with helpers , something is different about it's willingness to chase / engage in cetain context ? HMMMMM. Hmmm... is anyone listening to this dog- I wonder, ..... I don't know . And I think this : how did the two people know this dog had high defense behavior .. without not having worked this dog in defense ? Maybe defensing this dog came very easy but like my friend's god the predatory behavior was not always forthem exhibited ??? And If this dog does have predatory instincts , as the OP stated about chasing... I wonder if they only used their training , their MO ... as I often seen by helpers , training by their , catagorical , locked in training 'techniques and mehthods. Perhaps ... maybe , a biggg maybe , they shoud have been training this dog via a different style - his style ? Just wondering... don't know .. but would have loved to have seen for myself. Glock .. I think without looking back had a similar reference to trying something different as also did a few others on the thread. Go back re read comments again- they may have been more on track then when first having been read.. Hmmm..

Crusty apart from being honest you seem quite vulnerable and was easily influenced to let go a dog that might very well end up serving your purposes. Even if a dog is civil once it is not dominant with family members ( and willing to push them into submission by aggresive displays ) it could be lived with and of course with proper management. If the owner / handler is weak and filled with many uncertainties , and a dominant dog succeeds in getting you to back down in every challenge ..then you will certainly end up with a problem.