This is a placeholder text
Group text
by beetree on 15 May 2013 - 09:05
Law enforcement sources familiar with the test results said that Lanza, 20, had no traces of alcohol or any illegal drugs such as cocaine or marijuana in his body. The sources also said that there is no trace of antidepressants or anti-psychotic medications.
..."Whatever made him do this there weren't drugs involved,'' Baden said. "It was something else that made him decide to act out what was on his mind and start planning it."
Former FBI profiler Mary Ellen O'Toole said she wasn't surprised to learn that Lanza had a clean toxicology test, noting that shooters in other recent mass killings also tested clean. Virginia Tech gunman Seung-Hui Cho, for instance, had been prescribed Prozac but had no traces of the drug in his system after the attack, she said.
by Carlin on 15 May 2013 - 10:05
Though neither of his diagnosed medical conditions (Asberger's and SID) necessarily correlates with violence, complications in the real world can be unpredictable. I am not familiar enough with the conditions to know for sure, but I have to wonder if he should not have been on meds and/or other treatment. Unfortunately, there is no one left to ask if mom pushed for him to be treated, and whether or not he may have resisted.
by beetree on 15 May 2013 - 14:05
His mother was a big part of the problem. I have little sympathy for her and her parenting, that is for sure. It appears she would cherry pick treatments or what she wanted to hear concerning her son and what to do about his issues. Gun therapy was apparently approved by her. Violent video games, were acceptable. Of course in the end he shot her first.
by Mindhunt on 15 May 2013 - 18:05
From what I understand, Lanza's mother did push for therapy but insurance would not cover the type of therapy that was needed. Aspergers and Sensory Integration Dysfunction are best treated by therapy such as learning effective social skills, effective coping strategies, occupational and cognitive skills among others, NOT medication, unfortunately, most insurances will not cover anything other than medication. She also tried to get him committed but insurance again refused to cover the cost of his inpatient treatment. I think Adam's mother tried her best to provide what she hoped would work. It is easy to demonize and second guess her, especially after the fact. As for those mass killers that "tested clean", they usually discontinued medication abruptly, which has a rebound effect and causes worse symptoms.
Object Relations Psychoanalyst Donald Winnicott is famous for his "Good Enough Mother" idea, someone who pays attention to her child, provides what is called a holding, supportive environment, offers physical and emotional care, has unconditional positive regard for her child, firm reasonable boundaries with a clear cut reward and consequence system, and when she fails, she tries again and again to be a good mother. Throughout history, mother's are almost always blamed for their children's shortcomings and mental health disorders. "Refrigerator mother" (autism), "Schizophrenic-genic mother" (schizophrenia, bipolar, dissociative identity disorder, etc), "Smothering mothers" (homosexuality), "Overindulgent mothers" (narcissism, etc), "Hypercritical mother" (anorexia, bulimia), and the list goes on. Do mothers play an ultra important role in the lives of their children, hell yes, but so do fathers, grandparents, aunts, uncles, extended family even those family members not related by blood. The saying "it takes a village to raise a child" is so true, it takes many people (government, medical community, mental health community, friends, family, neighbors, schools, etc) providing a positive supportive network for the parents and children to live and grow. Societies where the tribe or village are part of raising a child have very little mental health issues, and very little crime amongst the members (according to sociologists and anthropologists I have talked to). So instead of asking where the "village" was that could have helped Nancy Lanza and learning from this, let's just blame her instead, it is the easiest way and avoids all those nasty uncomfortable questions.
Object Relations Psychoanalyst Donald Winnicott is famous for his "Good Enough Mother" idea, someone who pays attention to her child, provides what is called a holding, supportive environment, offers physical and emotional care, has unconditional positive regard for her child, firm reasonable boundaries with a clear cut reward and consequence system, and when she fails, she tries again and again to be a good mother. Throughout history, mother's are almost always blamed for their children's shortcomings and mental health disorders. "Refrigerator mother" (autism), "Schizophrenic-genic mother" (schizophrenia, bipolar, dissociative identity disorder, etc), "Smothering mothers" (homosexuality), "Overindulgent mothers" (narcissism, etc), "Hypercritical mother" (anorexia, bulimia), and the list goes on. Do mothers play an ultra important role in the lives of their children, hell yes, but so do fathers, grandparents, aunts, uncles, extended family even those family members not related by blood. The saying "it takes a village to raise a child" is so true, it takes many people (government, medical community, mental health community, friends, family, neighbors, schools, etc) providing a positive supportive network for the parents and children to live and grow. Societies where the tribe or village are part of raising a child have very little mental health issues, and very little crime amongst the members (according to sociologists and anthropologists I have talked to). So instead of asking where the "village" was that could have helped Nancy Lanza and learning from this, let's just blame her instead, it is the easiest way and avoids all those nasty uncomfortable questions.
by beetree on 15 May 2013 - 20:05
Mindhunt,
Money was NOT the issue, here. Nancy Lanza was wealthy. Her son had an uncashed check from her for the purpose of buying more firepower, that he never cashed. Her ex is a big wig in whatever big company. I also am familiar with IEP process, and she would have chose the town she was living in because they provided excellent services. So your scenario might fit for some, but not her.
....And the 'Refrigerator" Mom crap is very out- dated in regards to autism and Aspergers.
Money was NOT the issue, here. Nancy Lanza was wealthy. Her son had an uncashed check from her for the purpose of buying more firepower, that he never cashed. Her ex is a big wig in whatever big company. I also am familiar with IEP process, and she would have chose the town she was living in because they provided excellent services. So your scenario might fit for some, but not her.
....And the 'Refrigerator" Mom crap is very out- dated in regards to autism and Aspergers.
by Mindhunt on 15 May 2013 - 23:05
Beetree, you personally saw the check written out for the purposes of purchasing more firepower? wow. Didn't know you were personally familiar with Newtown's services. I too am familiar with IEP services and they are only as good as the school's resources are and many times what the school system deems appropriate is not what the psychologist feels is the most effective method of helping the student. All the terms I used for mothers are outdated by today's standards except many still feel they are accurate in varying degrees although not politically correct. The term good enough mother was to help women understand they did not need to be perfect or infallible, just good enough. As for Nancy Lanza, I will not judge her as I have not walked in her shoes. I am not sure if you know what the out of pocket cost for inpatient treatment is, or if you know what the type of therapy Adam required costs. I don't believe in inductive arguments - Adam had access to guns, Adam became a mass murderer, therefore all people who have access to guns will become mass murderers
by beetree on 15 May 2013 - 23:05
Mindhunt... your last sentence is well, not so reasonable, so I will discount it, that is the best way I can say it.
by Mindhunt on 16 May 2013 - 01:05
Not so reasonable was the point of the last sentence
by beetree on 16 May 2013 - 08:05
Okay... I do have more to say!
The check is in evidence. I don't need to see it to know it exists. Well, now you know I am familiar with certain services much more than you. I am more familiar with Newtown than you, period. Yes, again, I will state again, money was never a problem for Nancy Lanza. I will judge Nancy Lanza, because if we don't judge her pathetic attempts at parenting her own sick child, other children and educators will be victims of this type of dangerous enabling and denial.
The check is in evidence. I don't need to see it to know it exists. Well, now you know I am familiar with certain services much more than you. I am more familiar with Newtown than you, period. Yes, again, I will state again, money was never a problem for Nancy Lanza. I will judge Nancy Lanza, because if we don't judge her pathetic attempts at parenting her own sick child, other children and educators will be victims of this type of dangerous enabling and denial.
by Carlin on 16 May 2013 - 09:05
There's just so much speculation on the matter. IMO,Lanza was not receiving the care he needed. I suppose the fact that he killed his mother would indicate a certain amount of angst existed between, possibly because Adam may have resisted his mother's wishes in regard to his condition. As far as I know, he was an adult, responsible for his own affairs, not having been adjudicated otherwise. If he were uncooperative, her only recourse would have been to kick him to the curb, or have him committed, something I imagine would have been difficult for any of us who have children. If this is the case, then the real mistakes were the little ones she made all along the way regarding his care, because by the time Newtown happened, the situation was obviously beyond her control. I would however, find it difficult to believe that a monster appeared overnight, and she would have had some indication of what he was prior. To provide him access to those firearms in light of that fact is inexcusable.
Contact information Disclaimer Privacy Statement Copyright Information Terms of Service Cookie policy ↑ Back to top