Not a Question of Our Goodness - Page 3

Waves @GSD admin,,,You know I have always been fond of you too.....

Gouda, I already answered the question you are asking and have nothing more to add to it,,It is a somber subject that I do not care to continue to repeat...

"the God of the Bible"

But WHICH Bible? What version? Translated by whom? And which Testament--Old or New?  Some of the Old, and all of the New? Or does everything pre-dating the individual called Jesus get tossed out as irrelevant and no longer applicable once he arrives on the scene?  Oh dear...so very many variables to consider, and I barely started... 

And what if--bear with me now, this could be an unsettling concept to some--but what if you, the general you not just Ruger, if when you died, after having been a faithful worshiper of the deity of your preference and having done as best as a human can do to adhere to the tenets of that faith, what if you are met by that deity and are told that you failed the most basic of all tenets because "the primary objective" [as they say in sci-fi stories] was nothing more than each person treating others as they wanted to be treated, trying to be kind to each other more often than not, trying not to hurt each other and apologizing when you inadvertently did?  What if it turns out that it doesn't matter to whoever or whatever created everything what the members of mankind call him/her/it/them--as long as the various members of mankind didn't use that name as an excuse to perpetrate evil against their fellow inhabitants of this dimension [regardless of species]?  Why would any "God" go to all the trouble of creating people only to set them up from the start to fail?  Highly illogical, that...

I don't much care who worships what, so long as it doesn't involve hurting others as part of the doctrine, but I don't much appreciate humans using whether or not they share the same faith as the measure of a another human, to the exclusion of that persons actions.  It's how we treat those around us that determines 'goodness'.

Hello Ruger.  Leaving aside Gouda's breathtaking Christian arrogance
- same as I just remonstrated with Red Sable for - in saying the usual :
"We are all created by God",
he goes on to state that "He is willing that not a single one should 
perish".

So some believers including Gouda seem to be arguing that it does not
matter what anybody does in terms of active sinning, no one can escape
that everyone is born already a sinner by the fact that none of them / us
are 'God'.  And therefore never measure up to the prime standard of purity.

But it also seems that provided a sinner confesses and repents, they will
get into heaven, not go to hell (no matter how bad the sin was).

Which is where I came in with my question about how a baby which can't
even walk yet can commit a sin ?  So okay, some of you believe that
'innocent' babe is STILL a 'sinner',  'cos  everyone is born imperfect in 'god's'
version - but then how the hell can a baby who cannot walk or talk yet
confess and repent ?  It's doubtful it could even form the thought inside it's
own head, let alone convey it to a pastor or anyone else.  Actually the same
could apply to certain disabled persons.  How does that fit with the idea god
doesn't WANT to send anyone to hell, he wants as many as possible
'saved', etc ?

Which is where I came in with my question about how a baby which can't
even walk yet can commit a sin ?  So okay, some of you believe that
'innocent' babe is STILL a 'sinner',  'cos  everyone is born imperfect in 'god's'
version - but then how the hell can a baby who cannot walk or talk yet
confess and repent ?  It's doubtful it could even form the thought inside it's
own head, let alone convey it to a pastor or anyone else.  Actually the same
could apply to certain disabled persons.  How does that fit with the idea god
doesn't WANT to send anyone to hell, he wants as many as possible
'saved', etc ?

It is confusing because it just isn't so.  No child will be denied heaven.  GSDguy clearly pointed out what the Bible says about sin.  
Ruger speaks with great authority, but really she is just parroting a man.  John Calvin.  

For anyone who really wants to see what the Bible says, reading it (the King James version) is the best way to go about it.
 Don't take anyones word, in this day and age, it is just too risky.


 

You guys never heard of Limbo? Another great place to hang out without actually going to Hell. The baby isn't a "sinner". The baby like everyone is born with original sin. This sin needs to be wiped clean to be in a state of grace, which is required to attain heaven. I think that's how it goes. Limbo is a happy place, just that you don't get to gaze upon the face of God. 
 
 

Now, 'Limbo' does sound like a Party kinda place !

See, guys, I still can't get my head around this thing :

Shtal claims not to be a Calvanist, but won't give a
straight answer on whether babies are so innocent they
go straight to heaven;  the Calvanists reckon (passe RS
interpreting Ruger)  that all babies carry original sin, so
can go to hell.

All you who preach on here seem to do so in the hope
of getting converts to your way of thinking ...

Seems to me to be a pretty poor advert for Faith in a
Xian god, if you (A) cannot come to some agreement
on the innocence of babies (and some others who
cannot act independently), and (b) sell the idea with
this built-in handicap to making it attractive to anyone new ...
<just sayin'.="">
Sadly RS I cannot get the answer just by reading the Bible,
cos as Hexe points out, there is little agreement WHICH
Bible contains all the answers !
L.

RUGER1

PLEASE ANSWER THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION.

What will Christ say  or ask a three month old baby
at the great white throne judgment?
THE DEAD ARE JUDGED OUT OF THE BOOK OF LIFE ACCORDING TO THEIR WORKS

  Please answer this question Deana.

    gouda

Gouda, hello ...I think Christ just might ask the baby, did you cry loud? Poop stinky? Smile adorably? Are you the cause of the greatest, most amazing feeling of love that your parents ever could imagine?

And then, if I were him, I'd give that baby a pass to the pearly gates.

Red Sable wrote "reading it (the King James version) is the best way to go about it."

I don't equate Christian salvation with extensive theological study, but to your point, the King James is actually quite poor in terms of its hermeneutical and exegetical value.