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by beetree on 14 April 2013 - 17:04
I disagree this has to do with "disarming the public at large". The common sense solutions in the discussion for new legislation specifically avoids trampling 2nd Amendment rights.
It seeks to make a necessary cultural breakthrough, to realize meaningful changes in USA perception about gun violence and ownership. It is talking about passing legislation that begins with something doable now, and continues into future innovations we can all embrace, to make for a USA society who does not want mass murder as easy as an internet suggestion to jihad. Or even a bullied and mentally unstable shooter's impulse to accomplish an act so heinous, as to gun down 6 and 7 year old children while they are at school.
It seeks to make a necessary cultural breakthrough, to realize meaningful changes in USA perception about gun violence and ownership. It is talking about passing legislation that begins with something doable now, and continues into future innovations we can all embrace, to make for a USA society who does not want mass murder as easy as an internet suggestion to jihad. Or even a bullied and mentally unstable shooter's impulse to accomplish an act so heinous, as to gun down 6 and 7 year old children while they are at school.
by GSDtravels on 14 April 2013 - 17:04
There is nothing that will do away with violence and nothing that will do away with mass killing. They will just invent another way to do it, I'd be guessing we could start looking for suicide bombings. Then what?
No matter what restrictions you put on people, there will be those who, intending to do harm, will find a way. The only thing all of these emotionally charged speeches don't tell you is, nothing will keep you safe. That's the price you pay for freedom.
No matter what restrictions you put on people, there will be those who, intending to do harm, will find a way. The only thing all of these emotionally charged speeches don't tell you is, nothing will keep you safe. That's the price you pay for freedom.
by Carlin on 14 April 2013 - 19:04
Bee wrote:
"I disagree this has to do with "disarming the public at large". The common sense solutions in the discussion for new legislation specifically avoids trampling 2nd Amendment rights."
No, what is being discussed right now has nothing to with disarming the public at large, and everything. The operative ideology presupposes the need for social controls adequate to ensure public safety. We all have our opinions about what we are, and are not willing to accept in this realm, as it directly equates to personal liberty, to one extent or another. When these current measures prove inadequate (which is purely subjective of course), we will realize the "need" for further controls, with precedent having already been set, and being propagated as the only rational course of action. The spirit of the 2nd Amendment was compromised long ago, as evidenced by recent court interpretation citing its irrelevance pertaining to protections from internal threat. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water, conservatives take exception to any further subversion of Constitutionally ensured liberties, which lies in contrast to the purported ignorant ramblings of yet to be enlightened gun loving wing nuts.
"I disagree this has to do with "disarming the public at large". The common sense solutions in the discussion for new legislation specifically avoids trampling 2nd Amendment rights."
No, what is being discussed right now has nothing to with disarming the public at large, and everything. The operative ideology presupposes the need for social controls adequate to ensure public safety. We all have our opinions about what we are, and are not willing to accept in this realm, as it directly equates to personal liberty, to one extent or another. When these current measures prove inadequate (which is purely subjective of course), we will realize the "need" for further controls, with precedent having already been set, and being propagated as the only rational course of action. The spirit of the 2nd Amendment was compromised long ago, as evidenced by recent court interpretation citing its irrelevance pertaining to protections from internal threat. Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water, conservatives take exception to any further subversion of Constitutionally ensured liberties, which lies in contrast to the purported ignorant ramblings of yet to be enlightened gun loving wing nuts.
by GSD Admin on 14 April 2013 - 19:04
"There is nothing that will do away with violence and nothing that will do away with mass killing. They will just invent another way to do it, I'd be guessing we could start looking for suicide bombings. Then what?"
Absolutely wrong. There are plenty of countries that have restrictions and they do not have suicide bombings. Canada is one of those countries. How many suicide bombing you hear about in Canada? You are trying to project what may happen with absolutely no proof. Keep projecting though as it provides great reading material if you like comedies.
"So, to be completely safe, guns should be illegal period. Then only criminals would have them."
Most legal guns aren't a problem until the owner uses them in an illegal way. It is a fallacy to think only criminal minds use guns in bad ways. Plenty of legal guns turned illegal when the owner crossed the line. Ask some of the people who have been shot in domestic situations, road rage situations and accidentally by careless owners.
Absolutely wrong. There are plenty of countries that have restrictions and they do not have suicide bombings. Canada is one of those countries. How many suicide bombing you hear about in Canada? You are trying to project what may happen with absolutely no proof. Keep projecting though as it provides great reading material if you like comedies.
"So, to be completely safe, guns should be illegal period. Then only criminals would have them."
Most legal guns aren't a problem until the owner uses them in an illegal way. It is a fallacy to think only criminal minds use guns in bad ways. Plenty of legal guns turned illegal when the owner crossed the line. Ask some of the people who have been shot in domestic situations, road rage situations and accidentally by careless owners.
by GSD Admin on 14 April 2013 - 19:04
Carlin,
We all realize that drinking and driving is bad and we have made laws to try and stop it but surely we realize those laws aren't working, in your scenario when do you see prohibition coming back? We can all project things that haven't happened all we want, right?
What about smoking? When do you see this ban on smoking taking place?
We all realize that drinking and driving is bad and we have made laws to try and stop it but surely we realize those laws aren't working, in your scenario when do you see prohibition coming back? We can all project things that haven't happened all we want, right?
What about smoking? When do you see this ban on smoking taking place?
by Carlin on 14 April 2013 - 19:04
GSD Admin -
Big money private inteerests have seen to it thus far that tobacco and alcohol have been protected to a point, but the evidence of the willingness of the champions of such ideology lies in the recent example provided by Mr. Bloomberg. One of the problems with this kind of debate, is that we are jumping into the middle of a 200 year old conversation. Productive deliberation requires a measure of knowledge of history, philosophy, and political science, where the facts are not subject to anyone's "projection", right or left.
Big money private inteerests have seen to it thus far that tobacco and alcohol have been protected to a point, but the evidence of the willingness of the champions of such ideology lies in the recent example provided by Mr. Bloomberg. One of the problems with this kind of debate, is that we are jumping into the middle of a 200 year old conversation. Productive deliberation requires a measure of knowledge of history, philosophy, and political science, where the facts are not subject to anyone's "projection", right or left.
by GSDtravels on 14 April 2013 - 19:04
Yes GSD, I was projecting, but the point is... if someone wants to kill people, they will find a way.
by GSD Admin on 14 April 2013 - 20:04
Why make it as easy as getting an automatic weapon with a 30 round mag then? Lets make it as hard as possible to do mass murder, no?
I think a lot of people think I am against all weapons and that is not true. When the founding fathers wrote the constitution I am pretty sure they never dreamed that we would have guns and weaponry as advanced as we have now. They never dreamed we would allow the mentally ill to have access to such weapons.
Carlin,
Big money? lol, there is no big money in guns, right? Ever heard of the NRA?
I think a lot of people think I am against all weapons and that is not true. When the founding fathers wrote the constitution I am pretty sure they never dreamed that we would have guns and weaponry as advanced as we have now. They never dreamed we would allow the mentally ill to have access to such weapons.
Carlin,
Big money? lol, there is no big money in guns, right? Ever heard of the NRA?
by Carlin on 14 April 2013 - 20:04
Who eluded to the fact that big money didn't have a stake in the gun debate?
The system as it was designed didn't fail, we did. The design relies heavily upon the adherence to personal constitution, and so has been in jeopardy from the beginning. After a couple of centuries of greed and self-interest, we apparently don't know how to behave without supervision. Wherever there is injustice, there will be cries for someone, or something, to "right" the "wrong".
The system as it was designed didn't fail, we did. The design relies heavily upon the adherence to personal constitution, and so has been in jeopardy from the beginning. After a couple of centuries of greed and self-interest, we apparently don't know how to behave without supervision. Wherever there is injustice, there will be cries for someone, or something, to "right" the "wrong".
by GSD Admin on 14 April 2013 - 20:04
The system was a failure from the beginning, you can't preach liberty while enslaving the blacks, woman and slaughtering the peoples who were already here. Can't you see the double standard?
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