by ValK on 14 October 2020 - 16:10
hired, i did argue you? is that when i said that treat is integral part in establishing and strengthen bond between master and dog?
but i never told that treat isn't effective tool of influence on dogs or any other animals. i just prefer when dogs works for handler but not for anticipation of treat.
if dog not willing to cooperate with its handler other than in exchange for food, that dog worth nothing.
b.t.w. ThatWasClose is right saying "dogs work as that is their job".
i just would add "if they were bred to do destined kind of work".
by Hired Dog on 14 October 2020 - 18:10
When it comes to dogs, I prefer one that will work on command, every time, all the time. Nope, I am not vain enough in that regard to believe that the dog is doing it to make me feel good, because that my friend, is pure bovine excrement. The dog is doing it because its genetics programmed it to and because it will get payed, one way or the other...be it drive satisfaction or a toy, whatever.
I could put my 2 year old son back in the day behind my dog and he would tell her "sook"...the dog would go around the car searching for the odor she had been trained to find. Who do you think that dog was working for, me, my son or herself?
As I said before, I have no problem paying for a job well done, after all, we all dont go to work daily because we like our boss, we also want to get payed.
As long as the dog works when told Valk, its good. If paying the dog with a treat or a toy during training offers me an advantage, I will take it, every time.
The world has moved on, training methods have improved for some things, not everything and I am here to take advantage of every single thing I can in those training methods to own and work the best dog I can.
by ThatWasClose on 15 October 2020 - 00:10
Allow me to be more clear, our working ranch dogs do not get cookies when being "trained" either.
by Hired Dog on 15 October 2020 - 04:10
by GSCat on 15 October 2020 - 20:10
The OP indicated feeding raw, not kibble, and asked for training treats suggestion, so I *assumed* he/she was not making his/her own treats, and provided my best no-mess suggestion.
Not all dogs will work for toy, touch/look from handler, or bite, and not all dogs are blank-slate puppies or civil. Some dogs' jobs are simply keeping his/her owner(s) company and maybe participating/competing in dog sports/shows. These dogs are not required to act based on split-second, potentially life-and-death decisions, or perform tasks with significant real-world consequences to dog and owner/handler, so if they *only* work for a treat is of little consequence. I much prefer a well-behaved pet/sport dog that has been trained using treats than an ill-mannered animal that the owner gave up on because the owner is not an experienced trainer or doesn't have the time to do train the dog some other way. Working dogs, like other dogs, need to be trained in accordance with drives, temperament, and intended purpose(s), keeping in mind what is possible and available for rewards (if any) during real-world operations.
I think when the dog/puppy bites the burglar and doesn't out until being told to do so by the owner upon return home, that is pretty good proof of training and temperament, even if training is not yet completed. Unfortunate opportunity, and hopefully, not frequent or expected occurrence. Ditto for dog/puppy going after a would-be robber acting in a threatening manner toward the owner.
by Smokin Joe on 15 October 2020 - 22:10
by Smokin Joe on 15 October 2020 - 22:10
by GSCat on 15 October 2020 - 22:10
FWIW, My current GSD and a past Siberian Husky would rather play than eat. Seriously much, much, much rather play than eat. They love(d) their food and food works(ed), but toy is/was much better for these particular dogs [sigh]
The only way I was ever able to train cats was with food (ha ha) [rolleyes]
by Rik on 16 October 2020 - 02:10
there are people here from almost every faction of the GSD world. show, working, sport, folks who adopt GSD, law enforcement, brokers for law enforcement and military. maybe one or two with direct, first hand experience with DDR dogs when it was still the DDR. this can lead to quite a variance of experience and opinion.
I find it interesting. interesting subjects tend to run off the rails every once in a while, with this diversity of posters.
those subjects not interesting just die out quickly.
by Hundmutter on 16 October 2020 - 03:10