German shepherd breeders specially ddr pls answer - Page 7

Reddingo, the remark about the rabbits is PRECISELY the tone why I wanted to oppose your arguments in favour of the sable. If you can't keep sh!t out of comments, don't be surprised if you get smart retorts.

Of course these were wild rabbits, running around a 500 acre estate. Duh !

Both you and ValK made statements about "all" showline dogs, masquerading as 'facts'. I have not made any similar accusation about working lines. (Would not anyway, I value working lines for themselves, AS LONG AS they stick to roughly within what the Standard requires of a GSD, if they are going to be described as such). I am however asking readers to consider the validity of the whole "DDR" obsession; something in which I know I am not alone on PDB. It never hurts a breed to give some process of thought to such matters ! That would seem legitamately 'on topic' for this thred.

The dog in my avatar is not that unusual. I put in his ancestry, not to boast, but to prove that dogs are bred from purely showline stock going back generations which do not fit the picture of "all" SL dogs some people have in their heads. And obviously want readers here to be convinced by. It was a natural stance pic; I could have put him in the exagerated Show Stance and had him look far more like that roached & hock-walking concept, but here you can both see that not "all SL dogs" have that permanent crouch.  And so can the casual readers.

He carried a little more weight around his ribs than the dogs I worked with on that estate, the ones (of mixed bloodlines) which caught the rabbits, and on which you could always see the last couple of ribs; but even not being properly worked (I accept that is my fault, and lack of time / access, completely) his belly did not droop, which was another generalised allegation being bandied around about SL dogs.

FWIW you have my admiration for spaying this particular bitch; I do not think any of us should be producing loads of puppies into an already numerous breed, unless they are of very high quality breeding AND working ability, including health issues. Too many in Rescues.
 

Here ya go. Nice " big bone" with big ol bucket heads and in the ring, instead of catching a wild rabbit for pleasure.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ulaxae522mdcx5/main-qimg-236a2fb986e1668f717199ca39f5b74f.jpeg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ew7j6nl2ufr9b7k/havana.jpg?dl=0

 

And for a pleasant contrast, gsd with working structure 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dsisb78zg1jx0m3/download.jpeg?dl=0

 

 

 

Btw, just glanced at your last sentence and fyi none of my dogs have ever ended up in rescue. More like going to good homes with people who appreciate a great dog instead of a cripped up hock walker that couldn't jump up into the back seat of the family pickup truck any more than it could catch a wild rabbit.
In case you were not aware, not every spectacular working dog is breed worthy. Not being breed worthy does not diminish the ability of a dog with A super temperament, solid nerves and balanced moderate drives. Those traits are qualities not always abundant in ' big bone' bucket headed thick bodied hairy show dogs nor so called ddr dogs.

To each his own and to own his each or something such resist must we much.
This is getting beyond absured in the rhetoric going round and round and around. All over a swiped picture of a super nice spayed bitch.

Considering they had shows and dogsports in DDR also, was the breeding selection really so much different or better than GSD breeding in other european countries? DDR dogs from the 60-90s are also present in many other dogs from czech, denmark, sweden and so on. So I suppose by pure statistics you will find better dogs today from other lines than just focusing on pure DDR-lines. Don´t know much about the DDR-dogs in more present time, seen some offspring that seems nice but in majority of case mixed with other lines or older DDR-dogs. Anyway, straight backs and sturdy builds you could find in other dogs today who are a mix of different lines, for example,

https://vimeo.com/250996163

https://en.working-dog.com/dogs-details/6290502/Molars-Frozt/?play=u1_2cf32b33204659bc22bef077746b5acd

Or like this dog who comes from a breeder who mixes more recent DDR-dogs sometimes with other workinglines,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9TVTBTKmm4

https://us.working-dog.com/dogs-details/4944536/Vargfjells-Mickey-the-Maniac

 

 

 

Here's another pup, a male, out of the sister to " that sable bitch"

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ibd4lkw8d4usa1e/attach%2826%29.png?dl=0

Reddingo
chase a wild rabbit that jumps up under their nose...
...dog can't catch the bad guy, doesn't matter what kind of commitment to the bite. Gotta catch em before they can bite em. The malinios jumping through the busted car window did a fine job

wondering why german shepherd dog should care about rabbit or any kind of wildlife creatures at all.
a few dozens hunting breeds, developed for exactly that purpose, is not enough?
i don't have LE affiliation thus can be wrong, but in that video with mali frankly i didn't saw necessety for dog's deployment. nevertheless, if you so much excited with such scenes, you can improve dogs for this purpose through development and breeding of dogs with horn on nose. you know, like rhino has. such dog will be able to break tempered car glass without help from others.
can you imagine demand from LE on your rhino-mali-dogs :)

kitkat3478
naturally i have not seen many, actually any of the original DDR dogs.
...i was saying was, 'based on my own observations', the dogs i commented about were not representative of either current or past DDR dogs, Not in my opinion anyway.

some kind of confusing contradiction - never saw these DDR dogs but you have your opinion about them... from your own observation. 
observation of what?
last pic with two bitches was taken somewhere in late 60s. pic on first page was taken in 1990~91. sturdy build, muscular and strong  female dogs in DDR always have been in trend.

and yet someone, who never seen original DDR dogs, peremptorily deny this.

Hundmutte
ValK made statements about "all" showline dogs, masquerading as 'facts'.

look, not all flesh on dog is a muscles. your avatar too small, to be able to see that dog. but i like to ask you - can that dog take over 2 meter vertical wall and jump over 5 metre wide trench or for that matter any dog from show breeding?

Val:wondering why german shepherd dog should care about rabbit or any kind of wildlife creatures at all.
a few dozens hunting breeds, developed for exactly that purpose, is not enough?

So, if you were the one who put your dog out into a big fenced field and during exploring, a rabbit jumps out in front of your dog, you mean to say your ddr dogs are so deviod of canine preditor instinct they would just sit down like a big fat blob and look away? Your ideal gsd according to pictures you posted probably know already that no use for them to even try a rabbit chase. No chance they could be agile enough to catch, not to mention they'd get so winded they'd drop like a blob of jelly.
Val, what instinct/ drive do you think herding ability is derived? Do you really believe your dogs could last more than five minutes working a herd of meat animals? Those three dogs look dysplastic and unfit for anything but sitting on the floor because no doubt they would be incapable of even jumping onto a couch and you believe that is what a " manstopper" looks like?

Reddingo
last thing you need is a predator instinct in dogs, whose purpose to be herders and guards. for humans took millennia through a selection in breeding to develop type of dogs, who guard livestock instead of eats it. herding dog foremost is protector from predators and thieves an entrusted stock with enough intelligence to grasp the task of keeping the herd in assigned boundaries.
actually i never was involved in training/using GSDs for that purpose but absolutely sure i would be frustrated if my dog instead of watching after sheeps, left them in pursuit for rabbit.
don't get me wrong. i'm not objecting when dog uses the ball, the stick like the object for physical activity in interaction with handler. particularly in the young age, when physical activity is necessary.
i objecting against developing of such "drive" into form of absurd obsession on level of the genetic trait.

Reddingo, please post a picture of your idea of a man stopper and tell us why you believe it is one.

I have this magazine/booklet with all DDR siegers males/females and DDR leistungssiegers, herding siegers and more, but none of the dogs look like what is seen as current DDR stock as in looks, and I guess workingqualities is same story

dont know how majority of border patrol (DDR) stock would relate to these dogs, and from which original lines the size/bone and colour came from