German shepherd breeders specially ddr pls answer - Page 14

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by xPyrotechnic on 08 January 2020 - 11:01

its not that people hate the DDR its that the current DDR are not like the old DDR is temperament and Structure.

One breeder that breeds the old type is has a kennel called aus dem Tempel ceres look at the old DDR dogs and Look at the dogs they produce then compare it to these other DDR breeders.

One dog that i really like from them is called Eddy aus dem Tempel ceres if you come into contact with them please ask if they still breed

by xPyrotechnic on 08 January 2020 - 11:01

I just noticed reading through other past posts that you was asking for old ddr breeders this was in april 2019, valk posted a whole long list of DDR breeder

by apple on 08 January 2020 - 12:01

I doubt very many modern DDR dogs are operational for the police or military.

by astrovan2487 on 08 January 2020 - 13:01

I dont think anyone on here really hates DDR or is bashing DDR dogs but all the hype about DDR dogs from uneducated buyers and sellers is annoying. Seems like every other thread on here is about 100% DDR dogs. There are a handfull of decent breeders that still have 100%, I believe Blackthorn does on occasion.

Im not as experienced as some of you but my experience has been that the breeders and handlers actually training and working dogs dont give a crap about the DDR content of a dog.

Actually saw an ad on facebook the other day advertising a “100% DDR” litter promoting them as therapy and service dogs saying this is typical of DDR dogs.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 08 January 2020 - 13:01

...and of course every GSD assessed with a short upper arm / straight shoulder is of course a show dog (else nobody would be looking), and all show dogs drag their butts. Hmm. That's even handed. And really takes the original Standard into account. Also what has been determined by science and canine and breed experts down the years, whose boots we are not fit to kiss. All Korung is a waste of time. No dog needs to be truly functional in shape, it can be any old physical construction and it won't matter as long as it does the 'job' certain sections of fanciers feel it should do, in the way they want. Saints preserve us. Mongrels rule.

by ValK on 08 January 2020 - 13:01

stormins
i'm not a breeder, don't have such experience and secret recipe of know how on reversing trends in today's breeding practice.
i just see that some breeders with certain goals indeed doing this, operating exclusively by their beliefs and sticking to own principles, irregardless mainstream trends of commercial market.
i understand you're breeder and do have desire to develop own breeding program to produce DDR type dogs in appearance and temperament.
i think your main problem is an obsession by official proof of exclusive purity DDR roots of dogs.
may i ask you - if you will face choice of two bitches to be mated to your super pure DDR dog, one of them let's say Maika or Burga type but not belong to DDR lines and second one resembles sable one or one, you posted picture couple pages back but with bulletproof paper to be DDR descendant - which one you will choose?

Hundmutte
not all dogs in DDR were border dogs. indeed dogs, used in patrol role were a tiny quantity of the total GSD stock and was selected for their particular traits, which aren't much necessary for typical households.
aesthetic aspect is fruitless topic for discussion. different people looking for different purposes and meanings behind of dog's physical appearance.

K9L1
i truly don't know how people assess the dog to come to conclusion about "super aggressiveness".
any dogs has aggression in them. difference only in causes and threshold, which trig and bring it out.
normally very friendly dog, being prevented opportunity to escape confrontation and turned into berserk in desperation to survive, can qualify for title "super aggressive"?
on another hand - many people expecting their GSD to be protector dog when needed but at same time demanding that dog to have submissive temperament for easily handling and very high threshold for aggressive reaction.
in dog's world it doesn't work that way.

by apple on 08 January 2020 - 14:01

Valk,
I think there are a fair number of GSDs out there that will protect and are not submissive. In talking to people who used to breed some of the older, tougher DDR lines, there was a tendency for the DDR breeding program to select for dominance and some of the old DDR dogs could be very rank/dominant dogs. While dominance can bring power to aggression, with too much, the dog is likely to be handler aggressive or a pain. So when you say submissive, it sounds like you are comparing the DDR strain known for some very dominant dogs to breeders who don't select for that, which could related to breeding for sport and points. A dog doesn't have to be a dominant dog to be protective, nor does it mean that if a dog is not dominant, it is submissive. But if a breeder is not selecting for that trait, obviously, you will see less of it. IMO, dominance and social aggression have definitely been bred away from resulting in fewer dogs with those traits.

by Rhumphrey7 on 08 January 2020 - 15:01

The DDR breeding program post war, was a "Selective Breeding" endeavor to produce and maintain a specific type of working dog.These dogs had a job to do that required certain traits. Unfortunately that job no longer exist, thus the need to breed for certain specific traits is no longer a priority. So why do DDR bloodline breeders continue to breed? The truth is that a "capital market" is the reason 99% of breeders breed dogs, specifically German Shepherds more specifically DDR German Shepherds.

Yes we may love the breed but I have yet to meet the breeder who keeps everything they produce, whether it is dogs, horses or rhinoceroses.

Regardless of what some breeders may say, every breeder has to find homes for the offspring that they do not choose to keep. They have 2 primary choices for these dogs, 1. Give them away or 2. Sell them. There are a couple others we won't discuss. Because of this, breeding goals have changed dramatically and certain traits are no longer desirable as priorities in the offspring.

Since the original JOB of the DDR dog no longer exist, the original reason for a DDR breeding program also no longer exist.

However a new DDR "Selective Breeding" practice still continues today using DDR bloodline "stock" from the progeny of the original gene pool. Why? It is a nostalgic love of what was, a look or type and let's not forget the capital market. It's remarkable that there is even anyone called a "DDR German Shepherd" breeder.

Many may pick up the "Preservation" mantra and use that for motivation or inspiration but the truth is, if there was no capital market, there would be very few breeders of any species period. If there was no market for beef, what do you think would happen to the cattle producing industry? If suddenly orange juice was discovered to cause cancer, what would happen to the citrus growing industry? When there is no longer a demand for DDR dogs, what will happen to the DDR dog "industry"?

So breeders must continue to find purpose to market and sell DDR dogs while at the same time educating the next generation as to why they should want to own one of these dogs over a WGL, Czech or American line. Personal Protection and Security are the trending marketing words being thrown about today as more and more the NEED to own such a dog is evident these days. I remember never having to lock my doors and not worrying about the rifle hanging in the back glass of my truck at high school. Those days are gone, and the need for a "good dog" of any make has become more necessary in response to the troubling time in which we live.

Having said all that, I own two daughters of the infamous Henk JH, He was indeed a "hard" dog and did send his handler/owner to the hospital with serious injuries. I also have a very (so called just today) "hard" dog which is line bred on the also infamous Sven/Sindy mating 4,5 - 3,5. He has walked up the leash on two handlers who weren't exactly honest and there was blood results. I believe that these particular "hard" traits (some errantly call it IMHO) have become "recessive" traits in the DDR bloodline dogs. But I also believe that through "selective breeding" they can be made dominant again IF one wishes to do so. BUT these type of dogs are not typically suitable for the average home so the "old DDR" traits have been purposely bred out of them.

So those who respect and admire dogs with great nerves and sometimes raunchy "attitudes" are left to themselves. As long as they love, and provide good health care, why should anyone care? After all, they were just German Shepherd dogs when they are finally put in the ground. All things, including ourselves are just temporary.

There are over 3.5 Million REGISTERED German Shepherds in the US alone. 3.5M @$1000 (just to make the math easy) means it's a 3.5 Billion dollar German Shepherd industry. And we all know that the purchase is the smallest part! What does it matter, why someone loves the DDR German shepherd bloodlines and markets the fact that they love what is "left over" and still available today? If every dog in every line of the pedigree, goes back to a DDR registered dog, then they have true 100% DDR bloodline dogs. In the scheme of the German Shepherd census, it is a spot on the butt, of a flea on the dog, in relevant importance to the overall market of the German Shepherd breed. Just SMILE and walk on by!


8lu3d09

by 8lu3d09 on 08 January 2020 - 19:01

Below is a list of breeders that are breeding or have bred DDR line GSD, some may no longer breed or are now incorporating other lines into their breeding program.

The list was compiled from another topic on this forum by a forum member Valk. I have added a few more to the list and I have not added many USA or Canadian breeders as these can easily be found by doing a simple search online.

aus dem Tempel der Ceres - Yvonne Danz
vom Klodener Riss - Manfred Molbitz
Knurri's - Karola Knurr
vom Anhalter Hof - Frank Junkert
vom Beerenhof - Jurgen Muller
vom Haus Iris - Martina Seidler
vom Parchimer Land - Werner Schulz
vom Gleisdreieck - Arndt Muller
vom Teuritzer Eck - Ronny Stieber
vom Burggrafenhain - Birgit Milek
vom Domizil - Silvana Langer
vom Deutschen Rosenhof - Markus Zabel
vom Felsenschloß - Frank Schawe
vom Freistaat Thuringen - Franziska Klement
vom Kranich's Hof - Maurice Kranich
vom Silberland - Ronny Simek
vom Gickelsberg - Wolfgang Schafer
vom Stepenitztal - Rudiger Klischat
vom Grauen Schlund - Simone Pieper
vom Gussower Fließ - Uta Bloch
vom Muldenschlosschen - Andreas Poch
vom Hardtnocken - Wolfgang Schmidt
vom Hauental - Herbert Michel
vom Grafental - Bernd Gunther
vom Annenhof - Anne Posch
vom Kabuschsee - Heike Rux
vom Ottilienstein - Jurgen Ritz
vom Haus Ellernbach - Henry Ciesilski
vom Haus Fasold - Mirko Fasold
vom Kloster Mansfeld - Mirko Mothes
vom Poppenberg - Susanne Gothe
vom Schaldebacher Waldchen - Mario Willer
vom Schmetterholz - Torsten Thiemig
vom Schutze - Mayk Prei&
vom Thostgrund - Annett Hattasch
vom Weinberg - Gerd Fels
vom Zellendorfer Land - Matthias Atlas
von Poppitz - Hartmut Albrecht
von Weltwitz - Thomas Thieme
von den Grauen von Monstab - Hans-Joachim Severin
von den Halunken - Hans-Joachim Speck
von den Schwedenschanzen - Siegfried Rosenlocher
von den Wilden Teufeln - Holger Eller
von der Amsche Wiese - Michael Montag
von der Angelika - Lutz Mildner
von der Bismarcksaule - Susan Pietzschke
von der Fenrisburg - Kerstin Wiepck
von der Sperberquelle - Volker Dausel
von der Wedeme - Hans Brodersen
von der Wiesenperle - Sabine Rahn
von Lord Fandor - Gerhard Baumann
von Zollverein - Andreas Hahn
von der Bosebrucke - Sabrina Lemke
Wild Catty's - Kathrin Augustat
von den Wilden Ossis - Norma Jaksch
vom Ludwigseck - Claudia Heinig
Von der Old Lady - Gerlinde Schultze
vom Mecklenburger Wolf - Beatrice Schmidt
Spartanville - Constance Krebs
von der Gewürzwiese - Tanja und Sascha Hempfling
vom wolfsweiher - Frank Bernard
vom Schmiedegarten - Ute Rataiczak
Haus Bende - Charlene Heart
vom Ostschutz - John LaTorre
Vom Old Guard - Daniel Vasilioglu

Werner Schultze vom Parchimer Land has some good info on his web page regarding the hype of the DDR GSD.

I have a young DDR bloodline bitch that is line bred
4 - 5 SG Lissy vom Haus Iris
5 - 5 SG Gabi von der Alten Wassermühle
5 - 5 V Tino vom Felsenschloß

I can not compare her to the old DDR type because I didn't have the privilege to see them in person. She is very stubborn and will keep herself occupied, she has no prey drive but extreme defence drive when triggered and she will target the decoy with or without the sleeve.
She has been known to redirect up the lead when others have tried to handle her in bite work.

She is very calm at home and sticks to me like glue but can be very obnoxious.
Personally, I would have liked her to be more civil and much harder but she is young and just as pigs can fly she may get there.

Unfortunately, she has HD and osteoarthritis so that blows off one myth that the DDR GSD have good hips and strong bones.

So many dispute the current DDR GSD, and to an extent many do breed them or purchase them for the DDR wow factor and that is mainly for their looks and big bones.

To say there is no longer a DDR or East German GSD, we may as well say there is no West German working/show line because Germany is now one country. We should no longer say Siamese cat or Burmese cat and what about the Rhodesian Ridgeback?

It is unfortunate that the DDR bloodline is getting thin and before long it may become a distant memory of a long and forgotten type.

Probably the only way to preserve the DDR type is to introduce other lines into the mix as it seems a lot of good breeders are now doing but can we then say that they are DDR? Probably not.

We should not be concerned as to what name or what type that we say a particular line of GSD is but to never forget that the GSD is and always will be.

A GSD is a GSD is a GSD and each to their own.





by Rik on 08 January 2020 - 20:01

Rhumphrey7, thank you for your very obvious personal insight and experience on this subject.

you seem as close as can be found to "DDR"., though I doubt many know really what they are asking about.

when the wall fell, a LEO in my area had some contact there. a friend and I went to see what he was bringing over. these were dogs straight from east germany.

I have no idea the differences, different breeding's/types that Valk mentions.

what I do know is these were dogs so dangerous that they could not be touched or brought out of their kennel, and maybe he just got the bad ones, but that is my only experience with DDR.

seems to me some are looking for a way to profit from "DDR"








 


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