Why do some dogs maul? - Page 3

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by apple on 04 September 2019 - 11:09

Duke,
I don't know who is the more obtuse, you or Valk. You said a single, calm bite was a prey bite and not indicative of a dog fighting a person. Drives overlap and you can only speculate what emotions or drives are motivating a dog to bite. Wibo is showing a single, calm bite, in that he is not shifting his grip or munching. It is not exactly calm like an IGP dog on a sleeve. I would say he is biting out of confident aggression and is angry and enjoys biting. It is not stupid to use Wibo as an example. I agree, he is in the minority when it comes to serious aggression and power, but Dick's dogs are not the only dogs that bite out of serious aggression and have a calm, single grip.
Valk,
You could hit that dog over the head with a chair and I doubt it would phase him. He would probably stay engaged if stabbed. What is your point? A dog has limits. All someone has to do is shoot the dog. I don't know how your comments relate to the utility of a dog as a police dog or even a PP dog. They are not meant to kill people, but to subdue them without chewing them to pieces which would result in a law suite.

by duke1965 on 04 September 2019 - 12:09

I think I give up, enjoyWink Smile

BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 04 September 2019 - 13:09

 


Have worked with rottweilers and pitbulls also most of this breed have this natural in any bite/grip  genetic as we talk about maul, many X malinois too and they show the same in any grip for real bite,sleeve,or suit it doesn,t matter,some dogs show more natural agression than others and are more serious.

Than about Wibo, Dick work with the best decoys and this have also some influence in his training
Wibo was also a very dominant dog with a lot of power this combination with Dick his experience
as handler have aso some influence and ofcourse strong genetics, its not so every dog he breed are
superstars like this but Robbie en Rocky inbreeding was very sucesfull the type dogs he produced
with his litters.

Than about Mike S    bought  Carlos Vos from Holland  the brother from Wibo he was scared of him  and decided to sell him to an other idiot handler in the US, Carlos was also a exellent dog

KNPV produce this typ of dogs even today ... they are not dissapapeared Backhaus lines ,Ben Huijs lines, Kepa kennels,Bart Roosen Kuno, Celiks home I can go on and on produce powerfull dominant dogs. 90 percent from all KNPV dogs go to police,military service etc with all that positive training today we get a different dog because it is the MARKET ..its not so handlers in KNPV can,t control this dogs thats a very STUPID  thought. Some bloodlines need different training than ball and cookies and the KNPV don,t went hard and cruel training anymore because today we have social media and all hard and punishment training people share on the wwww.this have a lot of impact too !!! And than  the more  extreme dogs don,t match with police or military handlers today
they can,t control them because global they lack in knowledge about this dogs, They went the more easy dogs ......high driven ...crazy for food and balls as motivation because this is the market and trend today. Next year the E-collar is forbidden in Holland what do you think what kind of dogs we get in the  future for sure NOT the more agressive ,hard and dominant dogs.  And difficult dogs cost more time in training  and when a dog is 4 or 5 years old with PH1certification   it  is too old for the police market





 

 

by ValK on 04 September 2019 - 14:09

apple
question was "Why do some dogs maul?"
nothing about LE or military or training methods.
dog mauling the person - means the dog wounding a human by inflicting multiple tearing injuries by teeth.

dog do not need to be trained to do this. if dog was born big and strong and bold enough to confront an adult
human - he will do exactly that, not by grip and hold bite but inflict multiple injuries, because that how fight instinct
dictates to dog to do the fight.
duke earlier correctly noted - grip and hold is a hunt bite but dogs do not perceive humans as hunt prey, meal.
training dogs to use hunt tactic in confrontation with human is an unnatural, artificially implemented acting.

by Hired Dog on 04 September 2019 - 15:09

Valk, please educate us on how to train a dog within the confines of todays society to apprehend/fight a human.

by ValK on 04 September 2019 - 15:09

Hired Dog
i'm not discuss here society perception, laws, etc. just answer the question of why dogs maul.
if i'm wrong, you're more than welcome to correct me but i don't see why you need to be sarcastic.
problem not in training. foremost todays problem comes from breeding, which in turn dictates training methods acceptable for type of produced dogs.

by apple on 04 September 2019 - 15:09

Valk,
A small minority of dogs do see humans as prey. In 2018, there were 36 deaths by dog attacks in the U.S., 26 being by pit bulls. Among GSDs, Mals/DS's, a small percentage have the trait of non-classical prey drive where they actually see the person as prey. Because dogs are domesticated, and if properly socialized, even if they have the trait of non-classical prey drive, they tend not to be cannibalistic, as they see humans as sort of adopted relatives. So the rare dog that sees a human as prey still sees the human differently from a lion who would actually seek out a human for a meal.

by Hired Dog on 04 September 2019 - 15:09

Valk, I am not sarcastic, I am curious. You are correct, the problem starts with today's dogs being bred, which in turn dictate training methods, however, as mentioned many times before, all of that is a product of society today and there is no getting away from it.
I have zero interest in why dogs maul or what possible benefit that is, but, I see you keep hammering at the way the dog is trained and how it could be killed easily and so on and so forth.
Valk, MOST dog can be killed with a 2 inch knife and ALL dogs can be killed with a gun, end of, regardless of training or breeding. I would say that the biggest advantage a dog has on a person is psychological...no one wants to get nailed by a dog flinging snot out of its mouth and if you, as the owner of such dog can get compliance out of the person causing the issue, problem solved.

by apple on 04 September 2019 - 17:09

Going back to the video of Wibo, notice the head shaking and thrashing like a shark. IMO, this type of dog has been bred away from in the GSD because the breed's main sport is IGP and thrashing will cost you some points. In that respect, the sport has contributed to the deterioration of the breed.
yogidog

by yogidog on 04 September 2019 - 18:09

No if you know where to look 😉. Stop chasing podium dogs and supposedly great pedigree

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