Low drive malinois puppy? - Page 2

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 15 July 2019 - 15:07

PS If he goes for you when you try to pick up a tug or whatever that he seems to have lost interest in because he has already 'won' it ...that's not lack of interest, that's a feint ! If he'd walked off and didn't bother about you picking it up, THAT would indicate he doesn't care about it any longer. I think this pup sounds bright.  [And not in the least robotic !]

 

Perhaps you could try keeping going and not letting him win so quickly as you are used to doing ?

by Dorka94 on 17 July 2019 - 05:07

Thank you agn Q Man and Hundmutter.

No way i am giving up on this little guy. Whatever he will turn out to be,he is my boy and i will go to hell and back for him. No matter if he will turn out to be only a pet (which i doubt strongly).

I keep on going with him, food is still life but we are making progress. I started to realise where i went wrong at the beginning bc we had our first mini protection work session. He doesnt show much interest in prey but plenty for the decoy. The problem with me trying to put him on prey more is that its a 2 man job. If i have his prey, he wont fight me, but fights everyone else.

In a few days of letting him chase my other dogs when playing ball, we got to the point where when i let him get it by "accident", he carries it around, if hes in a good mood, he even chasey it by himself.

I guess after all i still need to put more energy into this pupper.

I also realised it was a long time ago i had a pup this small so i checked my footage from before and got shocked.

My boy is a giant. My prevoius mal at 10weeks was around 6kgs, this guy is already 8 and he is not fat at all,when i pet him, i can feel his hip, see his ribs. The thing is, he gets tired easy because he is big

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 17 July 2019 - 06:07

NOW you are 'getting it' !  The size of him has obviously conned you into thinking that he is maturing faster than he actually is.  Remember, he is still very much a baby at only 'weeks' old, he's nowhere near the 'full package'. And you are right, he's probably tiring a little quicker than a lighter one might. And you are also correct in that training wthout a decoy when you know you really need a second person there is almost always frought with those sort of difficulties. [Plus he's awful little to be doing 'protection work' mock-ups, even 'miniature' ones, IMO - dunno what the others think on that ?].

Anyway, I do wish you joy of him; as you say, however he turns out in the end !  Have fun.  Keep coming back here to let us know how he is doing.  And everybody always wants to see pics posted !

by Dorka94 on 17 July 2019 - 08:07

:D Hundmutter, i will definitely keep this post up, update you all on everything.

He is 10 and a half weeks old, so baby protection work is more of teaching him to grab and hold on to things, learning to use his drives, being confident, building behaviour which we will work with later on. Far from the adult thing, but still, its the beginning of everything. Bark, chase, bite, pull, protect :D

But i am soo happy, this morning he was going after his ball, played some tug :D not the carzy mal way, more like a normal pupper, but its still progress.

I am cutting back on spoiling him and letting him have easy access to comforti g things, making him face more challenges slowly and since he got his 3rd shot, city socialization starts from today :D

by jillmissal on 03 November 2019 - 22:11

IME you need to let the puppy mature, A LOT, before knowing for sure what kind of drive you are dealing with. People are quick to label a pup "low drive" because all they know is to look for superficial indicators, and most times if they rely on said superficial indicators, they are completely wrong. 10.5 weeks is a TINY BABY just barely away from its littermates and mom. Shouldn't be doing any training or drive assessments at all IMO.

"The crazy mal way" IMO is total nonsense perpetuated by people who mistake a hyped up dog for drive, or ball neurosis ( in the case of juveniles) for drive. Like, let this puppy mature and be who he is, he's a Malinois, the drive is there, access it when the pup is ready.
admirable

by admirable on 04 November 2019 - 07:11

I wonder how the pup has developed by now? Probably real working lines not sport lines. Sounds like a nice clear headed Malinois and they always develop the drive later. 

I have one such KNPV line malinois like you are describing, not really showed any drive when pup. She is now my strongest Malinois compare to my other Malinois. I do not like so much the prey frustration in Malinois puppies, clear head for me is more important. They become very tough dogs and good nerves when grown up are important. 

http://btww.eu/born-to-win-warrior-olympias/

 

An image


yogidog

by yogidog on 04 November 2019 - 08:11

True post admirable. Time will tell you everything if you are willing to wait.
Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 04 November 2019 - 11:11

Wow Admirable. That is one beautiful photograph.

by jillmissal on 04 November 2019 - 17:11

@admirable

Dang that's a beautiful dog! And your entire post is on point.

by Centurian on 05 November 2019 - 13:11

All the posts are nice … But IMOp there is to much missing. What I want to sate : nothing is an absolute when it comes to the dog !!!! I , especially me that potificates when writing posts , could not possibly put ito a post everything on my mind . What I would do with this pup and how. But I see that IMOP many features are incomplete or amiss . So I write some for the OP and some for people reading…

The puppy ….. My thinking … to share my experience [ BTW this is why on anither pooist I suggested flying to get the dog/puppy instead of simply shipping from Europe ] . If I even had in mind doing something with the pup , even later in it's years , before I even bought that pup , [or if I didn't know how to evaluate that pup, have someone with me that did know how ] evaluated that uppy to knw within certain degree of sureness wat the capablity , potentila , temperament , abilities of that puppy was. To illustrate , once I went to buy a pup , at 9 weeks old I used a flirt pole at the breeders , the pup went like a demon after the rag on the pole . Then I brought the rag towards me to my feet and the pup paused. then bit . THAT told me right then and there what I would have as a pup as far as those instincts were concerned. OK the morale if youare goun f to do something with the dog , as pup you should see the potential ther even before you buy that puppy , IMOP .

Now … someimtes as I wrote , nothing is absolute . I have worked Mals before that other decoys , and I am talking experienced people now , stated that young dog had no prey drive ! I interacted with the dog , the dog just looked at me .OK… in my mind , I think something else . I interacted differently with the dog and that young dog striked out to bite like a snake. He went on to work with a friend of mine to do Ring Sport !! The moral : dogs ave their own ' style' and How I interact with one pup is not the same as to how I interact with another pup. So , the OP says that the pup will ' at times bite the flirt pole '. My thinking is why and what is the pup telling me ? I often write : how , when , why , and where is my take on interacting with canines. Ad nauseum I have written that I do not go hrough routines , use so call 'methods. and techniques. And … this may be a very good illusrtation what I do not use cliche terminology . Ask , what is it about the pup or the context that sometimes it will bie the flirt pole and other times it won't ? So hard to state specifically for me not seeing the pup. But I share some thought here ….IMOP , from what the OP wrote , I know I could and I most definately would be, teaching , interacting with this puppy in bite work … because the pups told me that it like , on his terms and contexts , to bite the flirt pole. I just have to get into it's head and change his outlook a little bit. BTW , many people misuse the flirt pole. Dogs rare stimulated by very very very mulitple  quick short rapid movements. That is how we  should be enticing the pup to bite.  That is how we increase the interest and make it fun for the pup . Or we can posibly change the outlook of the pup . So , sometimes if the pup does not show interest it is sometimes because we have not made what the pup should do interesting.. Sometimes - and again every dog is different , is stimuated differently , works differently .... 

I also add another tiught I have seen GS everal times as pups they did not even care to work , not even chase a ball . People were told that dog was a pice of Sh** . Not intended to be crude but that is what they were labeled as . Then at 1.5 years old , like turning on a light bulb , these pups matured , went after a ball like lightening , some got Sch Titles and other got Ring Sport Titles. So ….why is this ? I believe with some dogs some potential stay latent and the when the biophysiology changes up in maturity these latent genes become trurned on. However.. I do not retract saying that as pups I prefer to see this at 7 weeks old the puppies drooling to wrork . I am just saying what others posted .with maturity nthe dog can possibily show something different behaviorally.

Puppies : again no absolutes . I have had pups doiung flirt pole work in my 20x20 foot kitchen with 6 , yes 6 adult GS around. beacuse if I tell them to 'paltz' they are not to move and if the pup goes to play with them , I expect the same, don't move ! So , if the pup wants to pay , there is nothing going to be achieved by harrasing the other dogs. And who is left to play with :-) … And if the pups does not care and is drooling to bite the rag , even better because now the pup starts to learn what I want to teach it : " nothing matters but the bite ". Then .. some pups tell me different- even if they are ignored by my other adult GSs and if that pup is incredibly persistent that pup is telling me to work oinly and only one on one with it. What I might do is , in the kitchen crate that pup , let some of the other dogs play a little flirt poke/rag work -purposely t so the other pup can see. And …..what I will do is agitate that pup by passing the tug right in front of that crate .[ or if outside the kennel run if I work outside] .To boot if the pup barks .. great , I am also teaching the pup to bark for the sleeve , the bite item. I can transfer that to working the pup all by itself - one pass of the rag to the kneel , pup barks , dooer opens and pup bites rag on flurt pole . No pressure , no defense to boot ! BTW , anything and everything I dowith a pup is fun . Dogs love to play , so I show them if they have the potential , that flirt pole is always FUN to do ..

For the OP , with this is pup I also would concentrate not soley on the pup giving me ' Attention' , to me that is useless . I interact with that pup such that with it's eyes , it's heart and it's mind , it looks to meit gravitates to me such that all my other GS are just other pack members and not the most important aspect of the dog's life. Personally , I care foremost if this dog works/plays forand with you . [ Op , I would like the pup to be able to do what your goals are ] .I care what is in this dog's mind and I care about understanding who and what my pup is as well as the ability and potential of my pup. That should be you and ONLY YOU . Listen , to EWHAT your dog is communicating to you , I say even to myself . If the foundation becomes the pup working with me and for me , even if simply playing, that is fulfilling.. But a dog IMOp that will not put me #1 in it's life [ aside from other family members that is ],then I have lost everything .

There is a lot to say , I end on just writing those thoughts …



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