I think treat training is cruel. - Page 31

Stand your ground, JJ. You are spot on, correct.

Ruger, very nice try at the diplomatic approach, as it is another winning tactic , especially to any disingenuous topic from the start.

JJ If you say something is factually incorrect then point it out and PROVE IT. Instead you mqake arbitrary statement and then talk sh1t about people which is basically all you have done here. Repeat 101 claiming being expert on The problem is that you are not able to think out of box. Clicker is this and that is it and others who have unconventional ideas are ridiculous or worse.
 

Well JJ and Beetree, let's go back to OP since you say it was "disingenuous" let see if you can prove it . As Joan said talk is cheep.

Q:. I have said that sight or smell of food or even potential of receiving food induces insulin and ghrelin hormones. Are you denying that? It is a Yes or No question.

Not going to play into your sophistry-philosophy and drag this out to another 25 pages.

I know your accomplishments are exaggerated and always without video proof. I know you enjoy the dance of marketing to the uninitiated. Someone else might feel compelled playing yes or no inquisition games with you, but if I can spare some decent person who just wants to know who to believe on the internet, or If the minutes spent writing responses and allaying doubts they are being wasted in such a discussion with someone like you who has invented their own vocabulary when one isn’t needed, then I have done a good deed.

Jesse~ Continuing to go round and round is a fruitless endeavor. What is ones “folly” is another’s right to express their opinion and view and last I looked we are still aloud to do that here. 😊

Marker training is not terribly difficult to understand or to train, to insinuate that any person here is ignorant of this type of training technique is kinda silly in my opinion. I think it’s more that they just don’t think as you do about it. 

As far as setting the record straight, that’s subjective depending on your beliefs and will cause early graying lol ~ 😝 ,,,,

 

Prager-
I have never even seen a snippet of a video from you. You might buy and sell, or import and sell, but a trainer that don’t make.

Show us something why don’t you?

Joan seems to have known you a long time...one thing I do know is that Joan knows her animals and is a trainer par none.

Yes, I am an amature with 50 years of having dogs, and 20 years of using marker training. I at least posted a short vid and can post more. Don’t have a problem with that.

Thank you very much, Bee.

Valk-
One can not say a clicker (or a marker) might not solve a problem....if they don’t even know the system. How can I say that?..again, because of said comments from others. It not about being stubborn about being 100% right, Valk....it’s about FACTS pertaining to MT.

ADD: MT is a system...that works pretty consistantly and quickly....it is not about “seeing what sticks and I hope it will work”.


 

Pragre, just so you know, I have made my living training dogs long before you ever even came to the USA. 

I believe you are mistakenly conflating my being a hobby breeder with being an amature trainer...you are a thousand percent wrong.
For all my adult life I have made a living training dogs. In fact, training not just dogs but many other species, has been my primary source of income all my life....that makes me a professional by definition. 

So for you to call me an amature, is a joke.
You have not even so much as titled a sch dog, let alone train one.
Your little get together social group screwing around with y'all's dogs is just that, a little get together.
Nothing professional about you nor your so called training. You've got nothing to show for your supposed professional training...it's a laugh.

Edit to add:

Btw, I have made my living training dogs for outside clients for many years...the first dog I was paid to train was in 1974....you probly never even owned a dog back then.

I have trained two dogs from scatch to do  entire 7 minute acts...both one dog acts...both dogs  for the Ringling Bros Circus.

I trained dogs for another circus that the owners could not get trained...got paid as a professional.

I trained a six dog liberty act with six registered Borzoi....bet you didn't even know the breed was trainable...got paid handsomely for training those dogs for a unique act.

I got paid, as a professional, to use one of my smooth Fox Terriers in a Budwieser commercial in 1988. 

I built a five stall kennel here to hold outside training dogs in 1997 for when i was home during the off season for rodeos....kept it full. Trained and put AKC CD on a 5 year old back yard bred germanshepherd for a client because he wanted him titled...dog didn't even know how to walk on a leash when he dropped him off...all three trials scored low 190s.

When I decided to get German shepherds to train and SchH title for myself, I eventually stopped taking outside dogs.

 

And I haven't even started about my sled dog team that I also performed with that I trained...and made my living with them, and before them, my three dog act with my Smooth Fox Terriers, and before them, my Aussie cross that I performed with who I also trained to work cows out in the Fl woods and two other Aussies that I trained and worked cows with him...all three dogs, me and my horse, hired to go help round up cattle and made my living with them...not hardly an amature, pragr.

And that's just the short list.

But I'll go out on a limb here and say you are not a trainer of any sort...not even an amature...just a keyboard warrior.

well, that made me LOL.

many attempts in the past to dominate this board and discussion, which I think some recognize here.

it's just going to be hard to do when many people actually have experience in many areas of dog world, as joan and many others do and are willing to share it.

jmo,
Rik

Beetree~ I’m going to nick name you the “riddler”,,, lol ! You are almost as difficult to “get” as Chaz😬,,

I’m being diplomatic because at this point what does one “standing their ground” hope to achieve by continuing 30 more pages of the same lol 😁,,,,,
#clairolightashblonde
🤗

Joan says:  That is the difference...Koehler is phisically forcing the behavior
Clicker or marker is trial and error by the dog.

This is how all animals learn - by trial and error, finding out what behaviour gets them what they want - and why marker training is so successful.