I think treat training is cruel. - Page 30

barefang i do not think that marker training is anything new that is what I am saying. I am not saying that it should not be used.

Joan no YOU can not convince me of anything that is true.

Duke you are wasting your breath here. You said it well:"if you cannot get the job done without clicker, you will not get it done with clicker.
it is just another tool, not a magical thingie".

Pictures, pragre. Anyone can claim anything, but not having anything to back it up, it's just words.

Name the dogs you trained and titled in schH.

Thanks Prager! I was looking for this ,,,

Dukes is the best quote on the thread!  Actually he had the two best quotes! 

...”if you cannot get the job done without clicker, you will not get it done with clicker.
it is just another tool, not a magical thingie".

👍🏼

Duke you are wasting your breath here. You said it well:"if you cannot get the job done without clicker, you will not get it done with clicker.
it is just another tool, not a magical thingie".

Another over generalized comment. Spoken by people who have too obviously never used marker training with a clicker. 

Ruger-

Yes, things have been repeated totally ad nauseum because of totally unqualified comments about marker training, that had no answers, as they were worded and posted, because they made no sense in context of marker training.

So a repeat of MT facts was the only answer possible.

Jesse~ Sometimes especially on forums like this you have to agree to disagree or the debate just goes on and on and on until it becomes embarrassing ~

More is less and less is more most of the time.

I don’t necessarily believe according to what I’ve read on this thread that there is as much ignorance about marker training as you suggest, only different ways of communicating and expressing ideas ,,,, I’ve read every posts and none of them are “unqualified” in my opinion,,

Making statements like that isn’t going to open any doors to better communication. 😊

Jesse, Duke does have good reasonability in his sentence.
if person able to read, understand the dog - that person can train this dog regardless of which methods, tricks and tools he/she gonna to use.
if not - well, nothing (including clicker) gonna to help the case.
problem hit that thread related to insulted personal ego of some participants and went into sort of tendency "i'm right. if you not agree, then you're fool".
lack of understanding due to narrowness of perception and fanatical adherence to chosen method.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything, pragre. There is zero gain for me to attempt to convince you of anything....but you have not even convince me that you have ever even trained a dog in basic obedience, let alone a hearing dog.

You twist words and meanings around because you don't understand training, marker or not. You like to pick brains so you can use what you read then use at a later time as though it's your experience.

Talk is cheap.

Since Joan and some other amateurs dog trainers are doubting my knowledge I will say this.
Joan to answer your cantankerous question, I train dogs for living I do not have time to do videos. I leave that to you. But anybody who cares can come to train with me and my group. I have trained Schutzhund for years to learn new stuff which I can use in my professional capacity as a professional dog trainer and not to title. I have titled several sport dogs in PSA and been second in PSA Nationals open division few years back I think in 2005. I have done so to learn and to shut people like you wh claimed I have not titled a sport dog, up. But I am not sure about the year and I do not care. IPO/SchH has a lot to offer to LE and Pp trainers and vice versa so that is why I went there. For that reason, I have trained dogs with many LE agencies and sold hundreds of dogs to them many of which I have trained myself. I have learned about LE work by training and riding along with K9 units for weeks. I have also been a K9 trainer for security companies and started K9 programs for several hospital security where the dogs have been trained obedience, protection, and explosives detection. I am in the process starting a new hospital K9 program. In any case I do not have to prove anything to you. I am training dogs for 52 years and I have been a head trainer in Kimbertal kennels, in Shiloh shepherds and Sun Valley kennels and in 1980ies I have started first nonprofit S&R dog organization in the State of Wyoming. I was hired with my S&R dogs by oil exploration company CGG for which I have worked for almost 5 years besides many other things as an avalanche control expert and my 2 dogs Timber and Lady were with me as an avalanche dog in every day in winter months in the high mountain terrain. Helicopters and all It was fun.  I have trained 100s of dogs here in USA and in Europe. I run my own dog training business for decades too and since dog training is no brain surgery so while for some clicker training may be life dog training accomplishments worth to put on videos one would think that even if I would be a complete idiot that I would master how to use a clicker or understood how marker training works.

 

Ruger-
I’m not starting here again.
It is obvious who knows and uses marker training and who doesn't.

But, I am sorry....people that use marker training can tell when others don’t. Just like bite experts can tell when someone doesnt know bite work.

It is not a crime not to use it. There are many roads to Rome.

But it is folly to post as if you know what you are talking about, and when much of what you say doesnt even apply to the subject of MT.

Then it is no longer a discussion.

It is NOT “agree to disagree”. Many posts are FACTUALLY wrong.

So far those that use it and have been posting, BE, Apple, Joan, Susie and Myself, all say the same thing. And no, no discussion is possible, unless you know the system, or if you don’t understand, at least ask. But don’t pretend like you know your MT.

Hundreds of thousands probably use marker training. Nothing new here. I’m not a genius.

But, when absolute factually INCORRECT statements are posted, over and over and over again. Well, heck. Shoot me...

....I do not apologize, nor do I see it as embarrassing, for trying to set the record straight.
 

Joanro said,

“You like to pick brains so you can use what you read then use at a later time as though it's your experience.”

Joanro~ you can’t possibly really believe that. ???

Prager (Hans) ~ Sadly it was  necessary for you to elaborate on your accomplishments, I appreciate the way you remain  gentlemanly while being insulted time and time again.