Maybe one of the best and interesting documentaries made over last years @ Iron dog K9 - Page 2

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by duke1965 on 21 November 2018 - 22:11

problem of todays social media and internet, anybody can post anything and impress the newbies, even BM thinks its great stuff

it is absolutely not done to TEST any dog like they did that GSD, probably decoy was instructed to make sure the dog would fail, for the video

good thing is you can book them for a seminair and buy a Tshirt Wink Smile

Koots

by Koots on 21 November 2018 - 23:11

I agree with Prager - the mantra "do no harm" should be in the mindset of ALL decoys/helpers. Why push a dog beyond it's breaking point - just to make a sale or prove what? Human ego BS. A GOOD decoy can expose a dog's flaws without pushing dog over the edge and a person who CARES about animals (and not just a sale) would not ethically do that. I think some people forget these are thinking, feeling beings and NOT just tools.


by ValK on 22 November 2018 - 03:11

looks discussion took turn toward overwhelming dramatization. it wasn't as bad as described in here. 
yes, kick was real but not by the toe of boot but by area of leg above the boot. that actually lifted the dog above the floor.
i do agree with duke's remark about scripted and staged essence of that video.
in training for real application, kicks and other means to inflict pain to dog, not only for test purpose but also as a means to teach that dog to be advantageous in that fight, unavoidable.
absolutely hate moments with mali, who been touched, hanged, lifted, etc. by decoy, with... freaking zero response to a newly raised threats. 
that's result of idiotic breeding on the all-oppressing prey and the following training through prey. absolutely unnatural dog's behavior. 
that dog in real life event are dog for single use, kamikaze.

BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 22 November 2018 - 07:11

 

 


Maybe some overkill in some scenes  and drama but this guys make very points about K9 today

Dick van Leenen on Aruba from Holland a sales man come on his guy is a real police K9 instructor with more experience than all the www.keyboard trainers here who never been on the street
for the real job.

Some people stay on forums and only blah blah blah and I ask myself do this people-experts  ahum  ever have time for real training dogs that is very hilarious  reading their comments,Shades Smile

 

I like that test with the GSD  the real world is very rude today ,this test is a proper selection what is a real dog or what is fake . Enneh I see a lot of Czech sales GSD promotion on the www with dogs who are never been tested for real.........only a lot of blah blah blah  .IMO

 

Mike Suttle have tested many, many  dogs with much pressure what most dogs  today  never can handle. Duke and Hans send your best dogs to Mike an let him  testing them on his way make a video  and post them here than we talk further....Wink Smile

 

 

by duke1965 on 22 November 2018 - 08:11

says the biggest keybord trainer of all, LOL

by duke1965 on 22 November 2018 - 08:11

and for your info BM, I dont do a lot of training, my company is specialized in supply of green dogs, we breed and test dogs and we select dogs for agencies all over the world, I worked/tested over 80 different dogs this week so far, will come another 20, bought 20 plus, this week, supplying dogs to Germany, Amerika and Egypt, this week alone, so maybe call your friend Jan and ask for some better info Wink Smile (which im sure he cannot provide )

 

 


emoryg

by emoryg on 22 November 2018 - 14:11

Another one of the Golden Rules for testing police dogs.

It’s not what you can do to the dog, it’s what he thinks you can do to him.  

by duke1965 on 22 November 2018 - 14:11

you dont need to break a dog or make it run off to see if it is suitable or not, or to see if it can take the pressure or not,that is only good for Ego of the helper, nothing more

bladeedge

by bladeedge on 22 November 2018 - 14:11

Myself I like to build the dog .obviously it needs to take some pressure from the start. But to kick him in the manner that gs was hit is bad and shameful and very unfair on the dog . looks like he was made to fail . Water bits imo look good but a joke easy to drown him. Wasn't impressed by the equipment part any one doing street work will do this .
Ps you brake a dog once and he will know how to fail . Using correct training do never needs to loes and that way Will fight till the end because he knows no better imo good post Duke
Koots

by Koots on 22 November 2018 - 15:11

Valk says:  absolutely hate moments with mali, who been touched, hanged, lifted, etc. by decoy, with... freaking zero response to a newly raised threats. 
that's result of idiotic breeding on the all-oppressing prey and the following training through prey. absolutely unnatural dog's behavior. 

This brings up an interesting point about a predator's natural response to a dangerous situation when taking down their prey.     When a predator has a hold of their prey, and then the prey is trying to kick or spear the predator, the predator will re-adjust their grip to not get hurt.    It is a natural instinct for self-preservation, and without it the predator will not last long.    I believe what Valk is saying is that some breeders of dogs are taking that breed towards characteristics that go against instinctive survival behaviour.     In the case of a Mal (for example, applies to any breed) that hangs on to one location on the decoy, while being subjected to 'testing' that could potentially threaten the dog's life, is not a natural behaviour for survival.   The Mal that I had (and subsequently sold to police) would get a good grip on the decoy (full suit) but if the decoy was trying to hit/kick her, she would re-adjust her grip very quickly to put her in a position that made if very difficult/impossible for her to get kicked/hit.     To me, that was a natural response of a predator to a vulnerable position while taking down their 'prey'.    

Duke says:   you dont need to break a dog or make it run off to see if it is suitable or not, or to see if it can take the pressure or not,that is only good for Ego of the helper, nothing more

This is what I was saying at the top of the page - a good tester/helper/decoy/trainer can see how a dog responds to pressure without 'breaking' the dog.



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