american members - Page 7

Ruger, I don't take vacations, and don't spend on new boots....I quit buying boots when I retired and had to stop riding horses.
I do not need any suplimental income, Ruger...in fact, my dogs and puppies cost me way more than I ever get back in the six or less puppies per year that I might sell...some I give to people who are training in sport and who title them.
Anyway, there is zero demand for me to sell any pups. The money sits in a drawer until I do hip and elbow exrays for OFA, and such. Just recycling the money back into the dogs. Not that I even need to have any suplimental money to meet demands. This litter of three will be a bust as for ' profit'....won't even cover the purchase of the sire....but he is bought and paid for, so nothing is needed to cover for.


Ruger: I personally believe it’s the ethical right of the breeder to control that.
***Joanro says she doesn’t want to be a hypocrite and tell her buyers what to do with the product they’ve purchased ??? Really ?***

My response: you are misrepresenting what I said. I spend much time talking to anyone before I agree to let them have one of my pups. You are attempting to make me into a "noncaring byb- sell to whoever has cash in hand."
This is what I actually wrote: I won't buy a pup or dog with limited, no matter if I plan to breed it or not. I just will not buy with stri gs attached. I buy the pup, I want to OWN the entire pup, full registration and all.
So,**** I would be a hypocrite if I did not give the same to buyers of my pups***. Has nothing to do with money.

[ GIVE THE SAME...that means in the context of my post, give FULL REGISTRATION....says nothing about
"what to do with the product they purchased"! ]
BTW, my pups are NOT products...maybe pups are nothing but "products" to you, but I don't share your view.




Ruger: Shame on you especially when you know that most dogs aren’t breed worthy. So is it not your ethical obligation to maintain some control of that as the breeder who brought them into the world?

My response: no, shame on you for misrepresenting what I said in order to fit your narrative that you believe Im unethical and a BULLLYYY!!!

And how do you know whether or not most of my dogs are breed worthy? You don't know, so you are talking out your azzzz!!!
It is my ethical obligation as a breeder to vet the potential owners of my pups and put the pups with ethical people who will do right by them, and who are mature enough to not need to be CONTROLED in the ownership of their dog.
I suppose, according to your phylosophy, that the breeder of your dog needs to make unannounced visits on you to check up on their " product" that they" brought into the world"... And if they don't, they have really missed the boat with you....





As for your bullying remark: don't read my posts if they hurt your feelings.

Hobby breeders are definitely not perfect either, there are plenty that don't do things right and get greedy. But I would much rather give my money to the small breeder that has a handful of dogs and actually works and lives with ALL of their breeding stock personally than a commercial kennel that has kennel dogs. To each their own but I have no interest in a kennel dog and don't want to buy from a commercial operation that focuses on that.

How is limited registration for the average GSD buyer is such a bad thing? Every contract for limited I've seen is copying SV standards, no breeding unless dog is titled and health tested. If you are an experienced breeder then it's a completely different story, you know what you're doing and should be able to decide what you think is breed worthy or not (within standard). I think that most of us can agree that many people breeding GSDs have no business doing it. Why not set up a system to try and prevent inexperienced people from breeding?

Astro: Why not set up a system to try and prevent inexperienced people from breeding?

Government regulated?
The system is set up through buyers being discriminatory. It's up to the buyers to not reward bad breeders.
As for " inexperienced people prevented from breeding".... How is a person to become experienced as breeders if they are never allowed to breed?

Pragre: Where a hobby breeder is not going to get hurt if he sells shit for top dollar because when the dust settles he can tell the client to go pound sand. Where a business does not have such "luxury" .


To qualify my previous comment on that statement that I see it as bs.....you are equating Hobby breeder with BYB....they are not the same. Many big kennels do the very same, telling people to go pound sand when they screw a customer. Staying in business or not depends on new customers finding out about the unscrupulous Big Kennel practices. The big kennel puts shinny websites with all the aluring catch phrases. Usually "suckers" are the target.

Joan

Yes, but the breeder usually has demands. If the breeder quits, then no full registration gets signed for.

 

My point is, when he buy a dog or puppy, I don't wants strings attached. Otherwise, how about I tell the breeder how or when they get to spend or use the money I gave them?

 

buying pup from particular breeder means there are some level of trust to that breeder. if so, reasonable demands shouldn't trigger an objection. 

well, maybe i don't know some nuances. after all most of my time of dogs owning was in non commercial environment and to be honest, i'm more for the dog, who will fit my requirements than dog's paperwork.

i thought this sole available tool, to somewhat have control over totaly wild usage, based on utilization of well know names to pump out in the mass mediocre or obviously bad, following generations of dogs.

Valk, if a buyer is unscrupulous and can't be trusted with full registration, a reasonable breeder will simply not sell to that person.
If a buyer gets a pup and is determined to breed the dog regardless of quality, they do not need full registration to breed the dog. So limited registration is not going to hinder the unscrupulous buyer from breeding their dog.

It is up to the descresion of the breeder and buyer as to limited or not.
I prefer to not put strings on the buyer. If I don't trust them with full registration, I will simply not sell them a pup....my choice.

 

BTW, probably ninety percent of the people who buy pups from me have no intention of breeding their dog.

Hund said, “Yes, a litter may pay for the odd holiday or a new TV, or something - but would you necessarily begrudge that to someone who was first doing right by their dogs ?”....

I don’t begrudge anyone making a living or earning a little “fun money” so as long as it’s not at the expense of innocent creatures.
Sadly, most breeder and most puppies born into this world are so, for the financial benefit of greedy humans, not the betterment of the breed.

Gustav said, “Quality comes from knowledge, experience, and ethics....”

Yes and the ethical, knowledge and quality breeder will use “the standard” and it’s health and temperament screenings to determine what stock is used.

😊

bladeedge on 23 October 2018 - 16:10

hi to all,
A question to all american breeder members . what is a realistic price for a gsd pup with very good pedigree WL male and female with all rights for stud and breeding.in American
thanks in advance.



Giving a little reminder as to the topic of this thread.....

Joanro ~ lol are you a moderator now? Lol
The OP’s question was addressed and the natural progression of things has lead here. Yeah, I know it makes some uncomfortable!
You didn’t mind derailing the last thread! 😂

Joanro said, “I would be a hypocrite if I did not give the same to buyers of my pups***. Has nothing to do with money.”

You have an ethical responsibility as a breeder to first and foremost protect the life you are responsibly for bringing into this world, period.
Your buyer is not the first priority, nor is your concern over whether or not you appear to be a hypocrite.
Yeah, I suppose if you’re selling a car maybe, but you’re dealing with living creatures! 🙄

I would be concerned very little about whether or not I’m viewed as a hypocrite and more concerned about doing what I can to prohibit this animal from adding to the over population of pitiful creatures.

You could hold back the full registration until the animal has proven its worthiness to be bred. Seems fair and reasonable and if you’re selling your puppies to people of good character and I sure hoped that’s the case they would be ok with you maintaining that kind of control.

I can think of only one type of person who would have a problem with that, and that’s someone who doesn’t give a damn about a breed standard or the importance of all the health and temperament screenings that have been put into place to keep non breed worthy animals from being bred.

I believe that taking this type of responsibility is the moral and ethical position to take as a breeder and in keeping with what an ethical, knowledgeable, and experienced breeder would do.

If your motive and goal is to better the breed by further adding to its “over population” then by all means please make it near impossible, as much as you can control, to prevent more substandard pups being brought into this world.

If you truely want to do what’s best for the puppy and also for the breed as a whole, you should be taking responsibility even after the pup leaves your property.
That’s the issue I have with some breeders. Once the dog leaves their property they are on to the next litter.
Hands washed ~
People suck !

Btw the only person your posts hurt is you...Sad you don’t see that~