Ae German Shepherds self aware ? - Page 5

Thank you, Bee, but your explanation impliments that every living being that feeds its offspring has to be self aware ( that's all mammals, birds, and other creatures) what makes this discussion more or less useless.

In that case: do we need to discuss about self awareness or the amount/quality of self awareness?

😃😃😃 Jesse,
dogs are different to humans.

They are easy to read cause they act instinct related -
They are difficult to read cause they act instinct related..

😎😎😎

Susie, I suppose the example I gave does not include why every creature would feed their young. There is instinct driving most lower order species. Mammals like whales even, need to be taught motherhood from a role model, which is why they suffer in captive breeding programs. A captive tiger recently gave birth to four kittens and wouldn't nurse her kits. Was she simply unawares of her state of being in lactation? Still, I think you do understand the principle of self awareness that I hoped it would illustrate. It really goes to the heart of what would and does make anyone choose to do anything. And yes, the differences in the quality of self awareness makes for quite a spectrum of difference in all individuals.

One last thing about Instinct....
A dogs instinct is not very different than ours.
Instinct is genetic and hormonal and dogs and humans are all out for the same stuff...
....food, sex, safety, group acceptance.

Only difference, is that our instincts have, for some, to a larger or lesser extent, been decimated, rationalized away or suppressed. But they are still there. Which may be the root of a lot of mental maybe even physical illness in humans.

There are times where my first instinct is just to want to growl at someone. They would get the message pretty quickly. But I rein myself in to react appropriately. Many a time I would like to stuff a whole cheese cake into my mouth...but I rein myself in. Same with sex, same with group acceptance. Maybe we are not that different, we can just “rationalize” to put a cap on our instincts.

Now I have to get some work done.
Great conversation everyone. Thank Cent for bringing it up.

Even if a dog realizes it is different from others by a deformity or accidental 'handicap', the dog does not 'feel sorry for himself'. The dog just IS, and does whatever it can to satisfy its needs.

Koots:

😃 Koots !
I think the same...

A tiger in captivity usually won't nurse the kittens. The entire lifestyle of a captive tiger is screwed up...they don't get to hunt, they don't get t choose their mate, they don't get to 'CHOOSE' the place for giving birth....everything is interconnected. When everything in a tiger's life that makes a tiger a tiger is completely** disconnected/ absent**, then what is there to pass on to any offspring? There is no life for the animal except breathing and eating what is tossed to them, without having the visceral pleasure of hunting, killing and consuming another living animal.
So, perhaps the captive tiger is more 'self aware' than you think....aware that life under her circumstances are not worth sentencing another generation to the same misery.

 

Domesticated dogs living in squalid conditions for generations don't know anything different. In other words, unlike the tiger, they don't have the race memory of living as nature intended....wild and self reliant. 

I am not sure how being able to feel sorry for oneself relates to the concept of self awareness. Understanding if one has self awareness requires them to understand how others perceive them and realizing when that includes a difference. The concept and nature of a pack existence would bear out the prevailing theories that the best leaders are themselves higher on the scale of self awareness.

Who said anything about feeling sorry for one's self. A captive wild animal not having the desire to raise a litter does not equate to feeling sorry...it has to do with not having any reason to raise young in a shitty environment.
You probly think nothing wrong with a tiger in captivity....stick a frog in a jar, drop in a leaf and a stick and you think that frog believes he is in his normal environment.

Thinking a tiger 'isn't aware she is lactating is off... That's all hormonal and not 'awareness' issue. It's up to the kittens to nurse, stimulating milk flow and mothering behavior. But an animal that is depressed and unhappy( not the same as 'feeling sorry for self) they will reject the offspring.